RE: Question about latest forum rule
November 14, 2017 at 1:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 14, 2017 at 2:23 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
As I understand it, Atheist Forums is meant to be a forum about atheism and not just a forum for atheists. And unless I am mistaken, theists are every bit as much full members of AF as atheists, agnostics, and anti-theists, etc. Theists are not party-crashing second-class members that are tolerated at best or here for the sport of atheist members. The OP of "Theism is childish" is a good example of the blanket insults and false characterizations theists endure as contributors.
Not that I care all that much. I'm a big boy. I participate by choice. I enjoy sportsmanlike trading of barbs every bit as much as a nuance philosophical discussion. Creative vulgarities and clever insults make me laugh even when they are directed my way. At the same time, many of us long time theists are growing very tired of the anti-religious bigotry that is so very common.
Many of atheist members object to characterizations of atheism/atheists saying “Atheism is simply the lack of belief is God(s).” I find that position questionable but am willing to go along with it most of the time. And in deference to that sentiment (sensitivity?) I am usually, though not always, careful to distinguish between atheism as an intellectual stance and atheism as a state of mind. I also try to focus on the intellectual position that I want to discuss, etc.
In return, I would appreciate if atheistic members return the favor by recognizing theism as “Simply holding the belief in God(s)”. If you are going to ask theists to mind the distinctions between gnostic and agnostic atheism, anti-theism and deism, then it is only fair for atheists (of whatever stripe) to at least acknowledge that lumping all kinds of theism, from Scientology to Hinduism to Roman Catholicism to Sufi, together is inaccurate. And to do so with mockery is just rude.
Even within the Christian tradition there are important distinctions. Not all Christians are Evangelicals. Very few Christians believe in biblical infallibility. More, though still a minority, think Scripture is literally true throughout. Not all are creationists. Not every Christian denomination believes in free will, eternal conscious torment, or infant baptism. While I believe that the main doctrines are generally accepted throughout the church universal, these doctrinal differences matter.
Nor is it right or proper to describe all believers as irrational, delusional, or ignorant. That’s just bigotry plain and simple. It should not be tolerated. For every idiot like Ken Ham, there are ten or more serious thinkers like David Bentley Hart. Likewise, for every theological moron like Richard Dawkins, there is slightly more thoughtful Pinker.
Now some will say that it is unreasonable to qualify which type of Christians (or Muslims, etc.) are being discussed when there are so many sects. Perhaps. But I would point out that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Within atheistic philosophies there are nearly as many combinations of ideas from Hume’s radical skepticism, Sartre’s existentialism, Schopenhauer’s idealism, Derrida’s post-modernism, etc. etc.
So I say, if the tone of this forum is to improve it is not up to the 5 or 6 active theists to “call-out” the bigotry or correct the hostile mischaracterizations directed our way. Our respected atheistic members, that are legion, need to step up to the plate and do a little more self-enforcement rather than making apologies for such...bullshit...or giving it a pass just because the offending party is a fellow atheist.
Not that I care all that much. I'm a big boy. I participate by choice. I enjoy sportsmanlike trading of barbs every bit as much as a nuance philosophical discussion. Creative vulgarities and clever insults make me laugh even when they are directed my way. At the same time, many of us long time theists are growing very tired of the anti-religious bigotry that is so very common.
Many of atheist members object to characterizations of atheism/atheists saying “Atheism is simply the lack of belief is God(s).” I find that position questionable but am willing to go along with it most of the time. And in deference to that sentiment (sensitivity?) I am usually, though not always, careful to distinguish between atheism as an intellectual stance and atheism as a state of mind. I also try to focus on the intellectual position that I want to discuss, etc.
In return, I would appreciate if atheistic members return the favor by recognizing theism as “Simply holding the belief in God(s)”. If you are going to ask theists to mind the distinctions between gnostic and agnostic atheism, anti-theism and deism, then it is only fair for atheists (of whatever stripe) to at least acknowledge that lumping all kinds of theism, from Scientology to Hinduism to Roman Catholicism to Sufi, together is inaccurate. And to do so with mockery is just rude.
Even within the Christian tradition there are important distinctions. Not all Christians are Evangelicals. Very few Christians believe in biblical infallibility. More, though still a minority, think Scripture is literally true throughout. Not all are creationists. Not every Christian denomination believes in free will, eternal conscious torment, or infant baptism. While I believe that the main doctrines are generally accepted throughout the church universal, these doctrinal differences matter.
Nor is it right or proper to describe all believers as irrational, delusional, or ignorant. That’s just bigotry plain and simple. It should not be tolerated. For every idiot like Ken Ham, there are ten or more serious thinkers like David Bentley Hart. Likewise, for every theological moron like Richard Dawkins, there is slightly more thoughtful Pinker.
Now some will say that it is unreasonable to qualify which type of Christians (or Muslims, etc.) are being discussed when there are so many sects. Perhaps. But I would point out that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Within atheistic philosophies there are nearly as many combinations of ideas from Hume’s radical skepticism, Sartre’s existentialism, Schopenhauer’s idealism, Derrida’s post-modernism, etc. etc.
So I say, if the tone of this forum is to improve it is not up to the 5 or 6 active theists to “call-out” the bigotry or correct the hostile mischaracterizations directed our way. Our respected atheistic members, that are legion, need to step up to the plate and do a little more self-enforcement rather than making apologies for such...bullshit...or giving it a pass just because the offending party is a fellow atheist.
