Theists: What do you mean when you say that God is 'perfect'?

[Drich]

In a recent conversation with a theist, I asked what makes something 'perfect'.  Their response was that something is perfect if it is "maximally ideal for its intended purpose."  I see this as basically correct.  What makes something a perfect coffee maker would make that same thing a lousy microwave oven, and vice versa.  It seems that to be perfect, a thing must be in some relation to a purpose or an end or a goal such that it maximally fulfills that end.

I use to say something that wholy meets the standard from which it is judged. which applies here to your definition in the same way. what make a coffee maker perfect make it a flawed micro wave. in that it is the standard and the object being judge's ability to meet said standard.

 But here we come upon a problem, because God doesn't have such. There is no end or purpose or goal which is defined for God.

That's not true God's standard or his defination is being the alpha and omega, the beginning and end to all things. He is the first and the last. He is the great I am. Sure a weak minded person would want to quickly trivialize these things and move on, but we must also honestly consider these things because when asked (by Moses who shall I say sent me) God answered with those things. Meaning knowingly being judged by man at the time, those titles offered would be whole and proved Him perfect. If those words mean nothing now it is because choose to trivialize and devalue that title. an honest person would seek out what those words mean and apply them to God before a rightful judgement can take place.

 

 It would seem at first glance then, that the word simply doesn't apply to God.

because for you perfection is married to "man's pop morality" which at best is a coffee maker to God's microwave.

 If I had a nondescript object on my kitchen counter which had no purpose, what would it mean for me to say that it is 'perfect'?  The best that could be said is that I'm using the word 'perfect' as a superlative, like saying that something is 'super' or 'awesome'.  Yet theists continually assert that their God is 'perfect' and seem to want to mean something more by it than just a superlative, but what do they mean?  Some take the lazy way out and claim that God's perfectness applies to "everything" -- God has all possibilities in the maximal degree, but this is clearly incoherent.

 Again, what makes your assumption of God's perfection unable to comply to "everything" underscores the fact that you do not know what it means to be the alpha and omega/ the beginning and end to all things. It means God's descriptors and titles are based not on a high authority to define or decide who God is. Because as alpha and omega He decides who and what is the standard from which He is judged.

So in essence whatever God is... is perfect, not because he meets judgement to a standard because He as alpha and Omega sets all standards.

An object which contained all perfections (whatever that means) would include perfect justice and perfect mercy. Since justice consists in giving people what they deserve, and mercy consists in giving people less than they deserve, the two can't be perfectly fulfilled at the same time.  So the 'everything' answer is ruled out.

C'on even as pardoxes go this is a weak one.
God is Just because the wage of all sin is death Meaning if you live a near perfect life and sin but once, you will be found not perfect and as a result be separated from that which is perfect for all eternity. That is just, as we are being judged on a scale of perfection. (you don't have to like or agree on what justice is as justice is met by the RULE of law and not feelings of fairness to the law)

God is perfectly merciful because He took that which is perfect and destroyed it in place of all of those who are not perfect, yet wish to be with god for eternity. Now because Christ raised Himself from the dead He too can be part of God's righteous and Just universe.

So what do you mean when you say that God is 'perfect'?

Simple man's answer?

God is the alpha and omega the beginning and end to all things. which makes Him the power that defines perfection, and not subject to be judge by the greater force/morality from which pop culture (coffee maker) identifies with a unique form of perfection.