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Philosophical zombies
RE: Philosophical zombies
(March 6, 2018 at 8:38 am)polymath257 Wrote:

OK, so we start with a collection of people who we know (or assume) are conscious. We compare them to others that we know (or assume) are not conscious (say, they are asleep---does that qualify?). We do very precise brain scans and find the differences in how the brains operate between those accepted as conscious and those not.

If we find such differences, and they consistently give the correct answers for those we all agree about, how is that *not* an explanation of consciousness?

Yes, it is the 'soft' problem of consciousness, but how does that NOT solve the supposed 'hard' problem? We have then found the *mechanism* for consciousness, right?
I would think so, yes...at least the mechanism for our own consciousness.  Fundamentally, the hard problem is un-resolvable, as asserted. It's usually referred to in order to posit some nonphysical or nonmechanical aspect to consciousness. In doing so, it implicitly posits a potential second stuff. However, what explains the effects of the second stuff? Third stuff. Third stuff? The fourth stuff. Fifth stuff?

So on and so forth, or at least until we reach a point where a person wants to make an immediate exemption for the rule they just asserted.
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Messages In This Thread
Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 3:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Grandizer - March 2, 2018 at 3:35 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 3:46 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 2, 2018 at 4:37 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by purplepurpose - March 2, 2018 at 4:56 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 2, 2018 at 10:03 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by purplepurpose - March 2, 2018 at 10:40 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 9:13 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 3, 2018 at 8:03 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 9:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 9:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 9:30 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:20 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:47 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by rskovride - March 2, 2018 at 10:39 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by rskovride - March 2, 2018 at 11:46 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 10:49 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 10:58 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 2, 2018 at 11:06 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:13 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 11:19 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:51 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:26 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:38 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:47 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:53 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:07 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:14 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:04 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Minimalist - March 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:04 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 2, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 12:50 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 12:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:42 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:03 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:27 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 1:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 2, 2018 at 2:11 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:09 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 1:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 2:10 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 3, 2018 at 3:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 5:49 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 2, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 2, 2018 at 2:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 4:05 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 3, 2018 at 4:13 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 5:33 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 4, 2018 at 12:16 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 4, 2018 at 12:18 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Angrboda - March 4, 2018 at 3:31 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 5:34 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 5:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 3, 2018 at 5:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 3, 2018 at 6:17 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 3, 2018 at 8:42 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 4, 2018 at 10:10 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by LadyForCamus - March 4, 2018 at 12:17 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Angrboda - March 4, 2018 at 12:18 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 12:54 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 4, 2018 at 6:48 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 4, 2018 at 10:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 4, 2018 at 10:07 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 4, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 4, 2018 at 6:46 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 12:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 5, 2018 at 9:09 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 12:16 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 12:24 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 5, 2018 at 2:22 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 5, 2018 at 4:30 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 5, 2018 at 5:43 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by WinterHold - March 5, 2018 at 8:16 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Silver - March 5, 2018 at 9:11 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 10:29 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 11:05 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 6, 2018 at 1:47 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 11:52 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 8:14 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 5, 2018 at 8:18 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 5, 2018 at 10:09 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 5, 2018 at 10:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 8:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Edwardo Piet - March 7, 2018 at 2:54 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 7, 2018 at 3:58 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Neo-Scholastic - March 5, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by RoadRunner79 - March 5, 2018 at 1:56 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 1:15 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Amarok - March 5, 2018 at 1:36 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 5, 2018 at 1:52 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 2:11 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by bennyboy - March 6, 2018 at 5:38 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 7, 2018 at 8:57 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 6, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 9:39 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 12:51 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 1:08 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 1:11 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 2:06 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by polymath257 - March 6, 2018 at 2:37 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 6, 2018 at 4:29 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by emjay - March 6, 2018 at 5:05 pm
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2018 at 8:38 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 7, 2018 at 8:58 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by Silver - March 7, 2018 at 9:02 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2018 at 9:06 am
RE: Philosophical zombies - by robvalue - March 7, 2018 at 10:13 am

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