Are Atheists using Intellectually Dishonest Arguments?

[emjay]

I'm not sure I agree with you on the second point; I think plenty of people who have experienced what they perceive to be miracles... such as NDE's... are profoundly moved by it in life changing ways;

Oh, is that why the worlds changed so drastically on the backs of these experiences?  Never the same day, from one to the next.

This is gonna take a long time isn't it? I'm only talking about individual's own personal perceptions here... for instance, with NDE's losing the fear of death etc.

Or..you know...untold people were born again and never once did it threaten their previously held orthodoxy. 

By born again I assume you mean as in 'born again Christians'? Yes I do see your point... as in God happens to agree with everything they think?

so I don't understand what point you're trying to make; that people take things for granted... or people are fickle... or what? Some, sure, many, maybe... but not all; granted once an experience becomes past tense ie a memory then it loses some of its impact and becomes more abstract/objective to think about... and in that sense could just become another thought among many about a religion... ie become more mundane/taken for granted, but nonetheless I do think if I saw the Red Sea part before my very eyes, that I wouldn't be quick to forget it. By saying it's something we all do, are you saying that you would?

That people are silly..and so saying "It sounds silly that people would do x" as though this argued against people doing x is..itself, silly. The golden calf story. Silly..sure...something that people do..also..sure. The mythical hebes did it, the purportedly historical christians did it..and people still do it today. I;ve had people literally cower under me for protection and the very next day seen them decrying the great satan.

Look, I do get what you're saying... especially with your cowering example which finally illustrates to me exactly what you're talking about But nonetheless I don't believe that to be the case all the time... can we just compromise here? I see what you're saying in principle, and agree with a lot of it in principle, but without ever having either witnessed a miracle or been in the line of fire, I don't know how I would react, only how I think I would.

I..personally, wouldn't be so foolish as to imagine that god parted the sea for me...... if it parted..but I also wouldn't be surprised in the least when people carved out a bull and threw a party on the other side. Imagining that theres a problem with these stories on -those- grounds is imagining something about people which we know to be untrue. That they're rational actors who make dry and explicable decisions in response to external stimuli.

Well, as I said, can we just agree to compromise on that? I wasn't thinking of it necessarily being a dry and rational reaction... more like awe. So can we just compromise?; you (seem to) think people always react that way, I think they sometimes do. I understand what you're saying in principle, so is that enough?