Marriage

[fr0d0]

Reproduction wins. Precisely. What was that study recently that modern humans are actually displaying evolutionary regression?

I think I heard something about such a study. Like DE-evolution are you referring to or something like that? I wasn't sure how strong it was though. May have kind of been borderline or a theory that wasn't particularly strong or something...I dunno. And partly - I forget.

No there was this one guy who noticed the trend over very recent history.

No I didn't say that.

I made your two conflicting statements bold?

What I meant was that love involves trust. It's an integral part. If you can't trust then you can't fully love.

I agree. But I don't need to trust anything absolutely.

No one's asking for absolutes. You adhere to atheism, you state that's strong, but it isn't an absolute.

Good stuff


[quote=Evie]

I can't think of this without thinking of my religious understanding. The Christian rationale about our inadequacies and how perfect love accepts and forgives that brings us closer to love. Sorry that's gonna throw you but I had to add it in.

Well, me and you (being British(?))

Yep

Anyway, I myself agree with that way of living (the religion part taken out and just with that moral bit here) - I don't hold grudges. I forgive people. That is - I forgive people IF I've already blamed them. I don't forgive people when I can't because I never blamed them in the first place

To forgive you first have to blame. Forgiveness is good - but it would be better to not blame in the first place if you're going to forgive anyway yeah?

Blame suggests not necessarily guilty. I've worked in a blame culture and it's not nice. You have to watch your back as the innocent are fair game. Actual guilt of crime deserves punishment, and that's when forgiveness comes into play. You can even forgive yourself.

To UNcommit from what's turned out to be a consistently unloving relationship you first have to commit. Commitment is good - but it would be better to not commit in the first place if there's a chance you could (perhaps quite easily, it's relatively common actually) 'break up' or divorce anyway.

: BUT you don't have to COMMIT to have a loving relationship. Just as you don't have to FORGIVE people to show that you're caring. You could always just not blame them in the first place - and I personally think that's better.

What's the point of blaming someone in the first place and then forgiving them if you could learn not to blame? What's the point of committing to someone in the first place and then breaking up (IF you DO break up I mean), UNcommitting if you could learn to just basically love the person? And love them whether they're with YOU or not?

If that makes any sense/helps you understand what I'm 'on about' lol?

Tennyson: "It's better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all"

You don't have to commit to have a loving relationship. You don't have to do anything. It's that you want to do it. It just happens. To not commit you'd have to go against what you wanted and stop yourself from committing. Deny your instinct.

Sour old spinsters talk about not trusting themselves to be hurt again. they shy away from commitment because they remember the pain of separation. What they're doing is preventing themselves from living and enjoying life.

I have a heart and I trust people and I have trust in myself. But I also have a brain and doubt people and have doubt in myself. I think both are valuable and both are healthy. I never trust anyone ABSOLUTELY that's true. But it's just the way I am - I wll never 'let go of my brain' (again :S). And I think that's a very good think.

Nothing wrong with realism and a level head. Love demands your brain sometimes!

And if you're not attached why would you commit? If you'd still be happy without them DESPITE how much you love them?

Perhaps my point is that I think that you can love someone enough so that you will love them EVEN IF they're not with YOU. So you don't need to commit, you can 'let go' you're not attached. You love them and feel for them, you'd prefer to be with them for the BOTH of you....BUT - you can still love them even if they're not with YOU (the hypothetical 'you' that is).

Love them enough to let them go. Yeah. Personally it isn't even an issue because the trust is a given. To trust to the extreme could also be a lack of caring. But I know what you're saying. The ultimate sacrifice would to be to let your love go. Nothing wrong with that, isn't it just another way of expressing love. This doesn't discount commitment though. You can't dismiss one with the other.

Now, attachment. I do not see what's good about attachement. If you attach yourself then you're closing yourself off...it's like throwing away the key....BUT you can still UNattach yourself anyway!!

Yep exactly... you throw away the key. You say 100% I'm in. You may be mistaken sure, things may go sour, who knows. You have to commit first though, or you'd never find out.

I mean....it's like locking away some items that 'mean a lot to you' but 'you don't need anymore' but you 'want to keep them in mint condition because they're very precious to you' and then throwing away they key.... - and then IF you DO change your mind....having to bash your way in to get the precious items when you could have just kept the key and unlocked it later when you change your mind....

No, that's the opposite of love. That's what the old spinster is doing. Locking away the key out of fear. It's the same the other way around. Both limit life.

And if you can have the will to not get them back WITHOUT making it more difficult yourself by throwing away the key, attaching yourself, taking away your options and 'committing' to that decision - doesn't that show GREATER strength IF you CAN do that?

No. You always have options. You have the choice to stay non committal on everything. Again, where is life?

I think this that I speak of is stronger than attachment and commitment. I think it's compassion.

Compassion is fine in it's place. Love is what your built for.

I think it's better to have compassion for someone to be attached to them, or indeed - 'committed' to them. If you love someone and care about them (compassion) then isn't that enough? - You stay with them because of that?

No way.

Well...if you can 'live together', deeply love each other, have a truly awesome long-lasting and meaningful relationship (and all the rest) WITHOUT commitment and being attached to each other - then I think that's pretty cool to say the least!!

You could look back on your relationship and say "WoW! Weren't we committed and attached"