Theists - I want to know what you think

[LadyForCamus]

1. Do you think lacking a belief in god is rational?  Why, or why not?

Lacking belief is a state of innocent ignorance, i.e. not having an opinion about a question you’ve never been asked. However, after becoming aware of a truth proposition one can react in three ways: consider the proposition true, consider it false, or not care. That IMO exhausts all the options. Innocent ignorance has ceased to be an option.

Thank you for taking the time to offer me a thoughtful response, Neo.  I have just a couple of follow up questions if you don’t mind.

With regard to this truth proposition, do you think that believing god does not exist is less reasonable than believing he does?  

2. Do you believe atheists who say they don’t believe because of lack of evidence?  If so, do you think that is a rational reason to not believe in god?

I believe it is reasonable to be an atheist but I do not think it is philosophically justified. To be clear, a rational person can hold opinions that on deeper study can be demonstrated to be incoherent. I see areas of legitimate debate both in favor of theism and against it.

Would you mind expanding on that a bit?  What would be an example of a position that is rational on the surface but incoherent on a deeper level?

4. Do you think an atheist and/or rational skeptic can reason their way to belief in god?

No. There must first be an acknowledgment of the Holy Spirit by a receptive heart. Faith is the position we reason from, not the position we reason towards.

I appreciate your honesty here.  Do you find that this acknowledgment complicates discussions with atheists who need a reason for belief first?  I feel like this is the root of why theists and atheists end up talking at each other instead of to each other.  Atheist says, ‘why should I believe?’, and theist says, ‘well, you just have to believe.’  Do you think we ever move through such a monumental barrier between us?  Should theists even try to convert atheists?

5. Do you think an atheist and/or rational skeptic could be convinced by reasons, or do you think God would have to intervene in some way?

Reason can only remove objections to faith but ultimately faith comes from the Holy Spirit.

So then it comes down to being willing to leap to that belief in spite of the fact that it’s perfectly reasonable to not believe?

6. Why do you think so many atheists were once theists?  Is it realistic to think a person could re-believe in god after deciding they could no longer believe due to lack of evidence?  Why or why not?

I consider that a statistical artifact. The majority population is religious so most atheists come from that pool.

Yes, that makes sense.

In my own faith journey, I was not sufficiently fed to understand the reasons behind specific doctrines such as the hypostatic union and the Trinity. For this reason, I abandoned the Christian faith. Once I properly understood the doctrines, I found Christianity more reasonable than the logical conclusions of atheism.

What reasons, or lack of reasons lead you to toss atheism out the second time?  Only if your comfortable answering, Ofc.

7.  Some of you had mentioned ‘sowing the seed’ as a reason to be here at AF.  If you were going to explain to an atheist what the best reason is to believe in god, what would it be?  I’m not trying to set up a ‘burden of proof’ trap.  I just want to know what you think would be, or should be most convincing to an atheist and/or rational skeptic.

Find some people you consider good Christians (not me apparently) and ask them for their personal testimony. Apologetics are all fine and good, but the most compelling argument for the Christian faith is how it changes the lives those who embrace it.

Do you think it irrational of an atheist to reject Christian testimony as evidence?


Thanks again for your participation!

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Yes, I think so.

Thank you, girlie! ❤️ I really do appreciate you guys opening up.

With regard to reasoning to god belief, do you think it could be done in the absence of personal testimony?

5. Do you think an atheist and/or rational skeptic could be convinced by reasons, or do you think God would have to intervene in some way?

I think some could be convinced by reason. Some would need direct intervention. Just depends on the person I guess.

What do you think of folks like Matt Dillahunty, who was having a crisis of faith and was desperate for any sign from god to hold onto his belief, but got no answer?

6. Why do you think so many atheists were once theists?  Is it realistic to think a person could re-believe in god after deciding they could no longer believe due to lack of evidence?  Why or why not?

Because if a person is committed to searching for truth and willing to go wherever it would lead them, it makes sense that they may change their stance more than once, depending on what they are finding and learning.

I 100% agree with this.

7.  Some of you had mentioned ‘sowing the seed’ as a reason to be here at AF.  If you were going to explain to an atheist what the best reason is to believe in god, what would it be?  I’m not trying to set up a ‘burden of proof’ trap.  I just want to know what you think would be, or should be the most convincing to an atheist and/or rational skeptic.

Probably the origin of the universe, morality, and the rapid spread of early Christianity.

That’s interesting.  I find the moral argument to be one of the least persuasive arguments for god, lol.  😛

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I think God channels goodness through those he vested his light and authority in, and any ignorance of them is ignorance of goodness, and ignorance of goodness and confusion and following desires with respect to it as opposed to discovering truly what it is, is the great injustice by definition.

I understand empathy and what you say regarding it, but I see reality is, is people are just clothing themselves with light while immersed in worship of darkness and it's many ugly devil heads. And this is the reality I see and there is no real significant good in that by which your actions can have weight, when good and evil is equated, and when idols are valued as much as God.

And if you don't want to know the source of goodness nor care to know who is valued most, it leads to all sorts of corruption in the earth, and it makes people followed as names of what is to be valued most, rather then the true images and names of God he appointed like Samuel (means name of God).

If it was like a invisible dragon in the basement, it would not matter if we acknowledge it or don't care for it, but when it comes to foundational purpose of who we are, you have to care enough to strive and you have to strive till you find him as he is the Great One who you should live your life for.

I looked all your questions and I think what I said answers them all.

While I don’t think you hit many of my specific questions, I do appreciate you coming in and speaking from the heart.  I know I give you shit from time to time, but I do believe that you are a genuine person.  I think it’s clear from your posting history that you believe the moral argument is the strongest and most convincing argument for god.  Personally, I don’t think not believing in god makes me an evil, ugly, or immoral person, because I value human life without god belief, and how I treat others is going to have the same effect on those others, whether or not I believe in a god.  Just some thoughts.  Thanks for participating!