Theists - I want to know what you think

[LadyForCamus]

That position can be rational. But, it's incomplete, as it leaves origins questions unanswered.

This is interesting.  Neo echoed the exact same sentiment.  That even though atheism can be a reasonable, rational position, it is in some lacking or incomplete.  I asked him, and I’ll ask you, can you expand on that?  If reason is insufficient to reach a conclusion about the existence of god, how did you reach the conclusion that atheism is incorrect without using reason?

When an atheist takes a stronger stance and asserts a positive belief that there is no god, that's not rational in my experience. There's no evidence that a universe can come from nothing (or however they want to phrase it), or that life can come from inanimate matter. But, those things must be explained in order to have a complete world view. The same person will disparagingly refer to creation as "magic," but has no problem believing that the all the matter and energy of the universe were compacted to a single infinitely dense point, and then expanded for no known reason, etc. Point being that if you're withholding belief in absence of conclusive evidence, and doing so honestly and consistently, you'd be agnostic, not atheist.

Just a quibble: Gnosticism refers to knowledge, where atheism refers to belief status.  For example, I consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning I don’t currently accept the claim of god’s existence, but I make no claim of certainty one way or the other.

3. Do you think rational skepticism is the correct perspective to be coming from when considering god-belief?

First, define rational skepticism. Frequently an atheist dresses up an a priori materialist philosophy as rational skepticism or some such. In that case, no, it's not a correct perspective, as god has been defined as an an impossibility.

By rational skepticism, I mean using reason and evidence to make inferences and draw conclusions about what is true and real, and what is not.  I wouldn’t necessarily label myself a materialist, though if some thing exists that is not material (what ever that means), I don’t see how humans could ever gain access to it.

If properly defined, then rational skepticism is a valid component of considering the god proposition. I wouldn't call it the correct perspective on its own. Atheists tend to vastly overrate the role of reason in the human experience. We're more emotional and intuitive than rational.

I agree with you on this, though I would argue that reason is vastly more reliable than emotion or intuition.

Reason has allowed us to build some cool stuff, but when it comes to earthly life's most important decisions, we frequently ignore it and just go with our gut. I see no reason why religious belief should be any different.

For me, it’s because of what is at stake in accepting such a claim. Christianity and Islam specifically go a leap further and demand unwaivering trust in holy texts, which is something that goes against my intuition.

Is it realistic to think a person could re-believe in god after deciding they could no longer believe due to lack of evidence?  Why or why not?

Could? Sure. Evidence is abundant or lacking depending on the standards of evidence used.

Would? Generally not. Lack of evidence usually isn't the real issue. The real issue is that people don't like being judged. Surely you've seen people here say that even if god were proven to exist, they wouldn't worship.

So, you think it’s more that most atheists simply don’t want to be held accountable for their choices in life?  Neo has mentioned this a few times before as well.  My personal POV is that my own self-punishment is sufficient to guide my choices.  In other words, if I hurt someone, I feel awful and miserable about it until I can fix the problem I caused.  Its self-judgement, and I think it’s a good guide for most people with sufficient empathy, though history has taught us that humans are capable of horrific atrocities.  I do feel a deep anger and a sense of injustice when people commit horrific crimes and get away with it.  Part of me wishes there was some greater cosmic justice, but that it a purely emotional whim on my part.

Hey, thanks for taking the time to respond, Alpha.  I know you are on the fence about sticking around, but I just want you to know I’d be bummed if we lost you!