(May 7, 2018 at 1:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I’ve spent some time thinking about what you guys have expressed in the theist-only debate thread, and it occurred to me that I spend most of my time here at AF considering my own reasons for lacking god-belief, but I’ve never closely considered what you guys think about the lack of god-belief. In doing so, I realized I have genuine questions. So, for once, I’m going to shut up about what I think, and listen to what you all think about what I think. This is not meant to be a debate thread (though I’m sure it will inevitably evolve in that direction, which is fine), and I have no intention or desire to deride anyone’s answers, so long as they answer honestly and respectfully.
Thank you for this opportunity. I see the debate as a way of each side coming to a better understanding of each other and thus better discussions from both sides.
LFC Wrote:1. Do you think lacking a belief in god is rational? Why, or why not?
I'm not sure whether I think it's rational or not is important, I do know God doesn't think it's rational, God gave us the created nature around us to say it is not rational to lack a belief in Him. If one doesn't consider the evidence that is around us and the consistence of the scriptures then I suppose it might be considered rational. When one looks to see if their disbelief is rational or not they must put aside all preconceived notions and take an honest look at what is being presented from the other side, examine it and then make that decision.
LFC Wrote:2. Do you believe atheists who say they don’t believe because of lack of evidence? If so, do you think that is a rational reason to not believe in god?
When I hear an atheist say this I'm fairly certain they have avoided looking at the whole of what the Christian faith presents. I know that the atheist here will not listen to creation scientist even though they have degrees from top universities and are well known in their fields, scientist that have written extensively on many different subjects. Is this the kind of evidence you had in mind, or a more direct evidence such as God showing himself to people.
LCF Wrote:3. Do you think rational skepticism is the correct perspective to be coming from when considering god-belief?
I'll say this is any skepticism the correct perspective to have when considering something different than what you believe at the time, doesn't any skepticism bring bias of some kind into the picture. We are speaking of a spiritual being and a spiritual world and skepticism abounds against this in today's society. An open mind IMO is the start in a consideration of God, He is outside the understanding of anyone who does not believe and to bring a skeptical mind to the table is the start of eliminating God as a possibility.
LFC Wrote:4. Do you think an atheist and/or rational skeptic can reason their way to belief in god?
God himself is a logical being, so yes logic is a beginning to belief, looking at things logically should be natural, but without the call from the Father by the Holy Spirit one will not begin to look nor can one finish the process. God does call all and most never realize when it happened, they find themselves considering God for many different reasons and those reasons are from God's calling.
LFC Wrote:5. Do you think an atheist and/or rational skeptic could be convinced by reasons, or do you think God would have to intervene in some way?
God must intervene but probably not in the way you might be thinking. Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through me. Jesus also said that the Father must call one to consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit is in the middle of this whole thing. With this said I believe many people can start the journey because of reasons/reasoning, but as I said the calling has to come before the journey starts and must be finished through conviction which come through the Holy Spirit. Please remember that God doesn't force, He will guide those who actually seek.
LFC Wrote:6. Why do you think so many atheists were once theists? Is it realistic to think a person could re-believe in god after deciding they could no longer believe due to lack of evidence? Why or why not?
On this question I must say that anyone who doesn't believe in the God of the Bible is an atheist, as an atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in the God of the Bible. So because of that I do not believe most atheist were once Christians. It does seem that most here say they once were but my belief is that once you know Christ you can never unlearn the knowing and thus can't be an atheist, just a rejector. My belief is that those who tried and did not come to terms with what God offered can still come back as long as there is a calling and I find that God is a God of many chances. I do know this that it is harder to do because one has to admit they were wrong about God and that they are a sinner who needs His forgiveness. Been there done that and know how hard, but not impossible, to do. Thank goodness for the God of many chances.
LFC Wrote:7. Some of you had mentioned ‘sowing the seed’ as a reason to be here at AF. If you were going to explain to an atheist what the best reason is to believe in god, what would it be? I’m not trying to set up a ‘burden of proof’ trap. I just want to know what you think would be, or should be the most convincing to an atheist and/or rational skeptic.
I always say it is the living relationship with Him, it's a relationship that can/will bring greater joy in one's life than can be imagined. I know you've heard us say that doing God's work can be a burden at times and there is a reason for that and in God's wisdom it is the greatest experience one will have. God calls His people to serve outside their comfort zone and I know this to be true because He has only once called me to do anything remotely comfortable to me. The experiences were frightening to begin with but by the time I was called to move on to something else the experience had become a great joy and I found I had learned so much from others even from children. Why do I believe the relationship approach is most convincing, one reason, most people have experienced a good relationship in their lives and can connect on that. Now this is mostly with adults, children are different and let me say this I disagree with teaching them the fear of hell to get them to believe because that is something that just doesn't last with many when the have a bad experience in the church, they are the ones who find a way to justify leaving the church. So with adults I like to share my experiences with God with them in hopes they can actually see that God is a difference maker for the better.
LFC Wrote:Thanks!
You are welcome and again thank you for this opportunity to share and not be side tracked, because as far as I'm concerned this is something that I want let others side track me on. If they have legitimate questions I will answer and will be more than happy to answer all the questions you might have or address any disagreements you might have.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.