Old Wine in New Bottles

[Fred]

Richard Dawkins is bloody brilliant, and although I agree with a lot of what he has to say, "Atheist Pope" he is not.

Sorry. The world had an election and he won. Sam sits at his right hand, Hitch is dealing with his illness, and poor Daniel seems to have gone off the board. Last I saw he was lobbing Dawkins quotes on FB and even one of his wags commented that if he wanted to read Dawkins quotes, he'd fan Dawkins' page. Had to laugh at that.

I want to hear you explain these mythic structures you are claiming atheists live by, please.

And I'd love to go into it, but the tangents are hanging up the process.

Also, What is this discussion about? I still don't get your point. Do you have one?

Yes, and you just said you wanted to hear more about it. So hang on and follow as best you can.

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After all, the gnu atheists are why atheism is on the radar at all, so it would be odd to not know what the main cheerleader for your team was up to.

I realized this wasn't directed at me, but I feel it's my duty to point out that atheism isn't a team sport. What Richard Dawkins is up to has so little relevance to myself and what I think that said relevance can't even be measured in nanogiveashits.

For you, perhaps, maybe not. But just as gnus go on about moderate religionists being enablers for the extremists by their very existence, that works for your team too. You can protest all ya like, and if it bothers you to be lumped in with them, maybe you can go ask a moderate religious person what that's like because they have ample experience with the dynamic.

Atheists don't have dogma. We don't have or need a fucking pope.

Whether you need one is debatable, but whether you got one is not. You let those gnu guys muscle their way to the head of the table and whether you like it or not, those outside the choir room are quite happy to do that lumping, just as you guys are quite happy to lump all religious folks together.

As for having a dogma, oh, yes you do. Maybe you can't see it from inside the choir room, but outside it's clear as day, and that's what this thread is about.

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Uh, not at all. It would make you ignorant if, as an atheist, you were unaware of what he was saying outside of biology. I have no interest in what he says outside of biology because it's cartoonish and ill-informed. But I'm aware of it. After all, the gnu atheists are why atheism is on the radar at all, so it would be odd to not know what the main cheerleader for your team was up to.

Well, I am quite unaware of what he says beyond, "me atheist, religion bad."

Fair enough, but he's your front man like it or not, and if I was an atheist, I would hate it.

Also, I don't think those 'new' guys are the reason it's on the radar at all, but it is a large part of why it gets the attention it does.

Uh, that's what on the radar means. You are getting the attention because of the gnus. It's jumped the shark as a hot button, sure, but it's still wiggling around and as the dust settles, the gnus are the standard bearers as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

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Fred, I enjoyed your piece. I found it easier to follow hitting text read and sitting back and letting the words and images do their stuff. Sometimes answers aren't the important part.

Well, thank you, mhikl.

Quote:
So while the believers kept right on believering, atheism dropped the beliefs but held tightly to the well-worn, highly effective mythic structure, adapting it to the new world ordered by the evidence. Finding new bottles for the old wine and setting out the “under new management” sign was all it took before business was booming like never before.

Sort of says it all, I think.

It says volumes about the development of worldviews, but it isn't something lots of folks want to hear because it's outside the box they are used to.

It seems sad that we so often want to pick battles in which we feel we are right and the only ones (or one who is) right; and expect to come out on top.

There's really good reasons why this happens, and it has everything to do with the op, which is why I want to go there.

[quote]Disappointments then can only be angering. I try to live by the rule that to each his own with an overwhelming wish that we learn to respect the ways and means of all sentient beings as long as they don't hurt others.

Right.

Why is there this hunger to make gods of our persuasions?

We see as far as we can see until we develop the ability to see further. Rinse and repeat. Consciousness. Is. Evolving.