Substitutionary Atonement! WTF?

[Chad32]

No, there is no magic that wakes me up in the morning. Am I also supposed to thank my parents that they didn't murder me in my sleep every night when I lived with them? Is that the kind of relationship I should be having with anyone?

Waking up in the morning doesn't mean God has spared your life, it means He is giving you another day to find Him. God knows whether you will find Him or not before your life is over, yet He still gives you another day each day you wake up. Your life like everyone else has an appointed end.

It's not that I don't understand absolute perfection. It's that it doesn't make sense. If it was absolutely perfect, then nothing would ever go wrong. If something is capable of going wrong in an absolutely perfect world, then what is perfect supposed to mean?

By the things you've said in posts I do not believe you do know what absolute perfection is, not in the case of the creation and God's love for mankind. Free will was part of the creation and being so meant that God placed His perfect creation in the way of man's ability to choose wrongly. To have controlled man from making a wrong choice would mean God wasn't the God who could take care of the bad situation man put the creation in. He has and will. 

No, I'm talking about this god killing children because their parents did something wrong. Like in exodus, or when David screwed up. And saying that if they grew up, they'd be learning the same things their parents did doesn't excuse it. There are a lot of other ways to improve societies without killing people. Your god just likes to kill people, and enjoys the smell of blood. And yes, the bible does specifically say he enjoys the smell of blood. I'll clarify that for you, after you apparently admitted you weren't aware he also kills children, which should be common knowledge to anyone with cursory knowledge of the bible.

That child of David's is in heaven with God, he is in a far better place than we are and has life eternal with God. David was the one punished not the child, the child received eternal life and David had to grieve his loss. You see if you are going to assume God you must assume all that He does, all. You can't choose to call Him a murderer and forget that He gives eternal life to the child, that is where atheist go wrong, they pick out what they want to believe about God and not understand that there is much more to Him than they want to believe. I could say more about this but for now I'll leave it alone.

You do not know what the smell of blood means because you do not know what the Bible teaches. You are clueless to the fact that the blood represents the forgiveness of sin and it is this forgiveness that God loves. Before God scattered the Jewish people by allowing them to be conquered He told them He was tired of their sacrifices and He would not forgive them and hated the smells of the sacrifice. Essentially He was telling them they were wasting His time, their time and the lives of innocent animals and He was not going to help them through this again. You see my knowledge is more than cursory.  

I'm a person with thoughts and feelings too. I know that change is a necessary thing, and if you refuse to change that's a flaw. Jealousy is also a flaw, by the way. Society has improved to the point where dictators are looked down upon. I was born in one that's supposed to encourage freedom of speech, where the people who run the country are supposed to be public servants, not rulers. Why shouldn't I air my thoughts, and give criticism to the character of Yahweh/Jehova? What sort of relationship are you guys trying to sell, that I'm expected to never question the other side?

 Change is not necessary for a perfect being and neither is jealousy wrong for a perfect being. Now change is necessary for the flawed and jealousy can be wrong in a person if they act unjustly upon that jealousy. Hey listen I've questioned God, but knowing He is the perfect being I ask Him to show me the truth because I know I'm flawed in my understanding of what God has done or is doing. If God were the dictator you want to believe Him to be do you really believe He would stop tormenting you every minute of your life, do you really believe He would need a hell to do so, you should think this over carefully. An omnipotent God that has no controlling traits would be the worse thing ever, there would be no stopping Him and if He were the terrible, manipulative being you believe He is then life would never be worth living, this in itself should show you that there is a God and that He is who He says He is and that you are the one who is mistaken about Him in all areas.

GC

Yes, he's supposed to be all knowing, so he knows exactly what I need to start believing he exists, and to convince me to start giving him a chance. Yet that hasn't happened.

He gave us free will, but there are many things that happen outside of our control. And when one evil person does something bad to his follower, he's basically choosing the evil person's free will over the victim. So the free will argument doesn't really slide. It also implies there's no free will in heaven, otherwise everyone would get kicked out eventually. And if there is free will in heaven, and it's working up there, why can't he make it work down here?

This makes me think that god doesn't understand the effects that death has on people. Because saying "he's in heaven with god" is never going to comfort anyone. Why aren't we killing every baby on the planet, then? If I truly believed they all go to heaven, then wouldn't I risk hell to ensure thousands, if not millions or billions of souls get heaven? It's a twisted concept to just say "well, babies that die get auto heaven". Besides, I don't remember any verses that explicitly state all children under a certain age go to heaven. Are you sure you're not the one picking and choosing what you believe?

No, I know what it means when a guy orders people to go into a neighboring town to kill everyone except the virgin girls, and then hangs around to smell the blood and enjoy the carnage. It doesn't speak well of this god you worship.

When you say flaws aren't flaws when it's god, that's special pleading. Either jealousy is wrong, or it isn't. You can't just make an arbitrary exception.

Apparently there is no stopping him. The world is often a horrible place, and it takes effort to keep going. It doesn't matter if you're the most devout follower of the correct god, your life is just as likely to suck as anyone else's. You'll get the same effect from worshiping Kim Jong Il.