RE: Best Theistic Arguments
June 28, 2018 at 6:07 pm
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2018 at 6:13 pm by sdelsolray.)
(June 27, 2018 at 8:15 pm)JairCrawford Wrote:(June 27, 2018 at 8:06 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: What argument are you referring to here?
The staggering odds of the Big Bang happening (if odds can even be involved, as there is much we do not even know about how it happened, however I'm trying to stray away from a God of the Gaps argument so take this aside with grain of salt), the staggering odds of the galaxies forming the way they did, to our galaxy forming the way it did, to our star to our planet to being able to sustain life to then the spark that started life to then all the evolution of life that had to survive to lead to us. You don't necessarily have to fit God into the gaps to know how some of this stuff works, but the odds remain absolutely staggering. And some theists make the argument that a creator is more probable than not under these staggering odds.
That's essentially the crux of the argument.
Quote:The staggering odds of the Big Bang happening (if odds can even be involved, as there is much we do not even know about how it happened, however I'm trying to stray away from a God of the Gaps argument so take this aside with grain of salt).
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What staggering odds? In order to calculate odds, I need to know the range and number of actual possibilities, not the range and quantity of speculations. And so do you. Since you admit "there is much we do not even know about how it happened", the only rational statements concerning the probability of the occurrence of the big bang, inflation, etc., is (i) I don't know what the probabilities were when they occurred and (ii) since they have already happened, the probability of them occurring as they did is 1.
Quote:... the staggering odds of the galaxies forming the way they did....
Neither you or I know what the "odds" are of the galaxies forming as they did. Your use of the adjective "staggering" demonstrates expectation/confirmation bias. The actual empirical evidence coupled with our current understanding the physics leads to the conclusion that it is highly probable galaxy formation is quite natural and an expected set of events. The probability of galaxies forming as they did is 1.
Quote:...to our galaxy forming the way it did....
Our galaxy would form just like others. See above. It's probability of formation is subsumed into the proability of all galaxies forming. You can't count the same thing twice.
Quote:...to our star to our planet to being able to sustain life to then the spark that started life to then all the evolution of life that had to survive to lead to us....
Our star is a main sequence star, which is very common. Our planet is made of natural elements and molecules and it appears that planets like Earth are quite common. Taken together, both render conditions for carbon based life to emerge and subsequently evolve, i.e., temperature range, appropriate/needed elements and molecules, energy transfer, all coupled with the laws of chemistry and physics. The emergence of a carbon based life precursor only requires the formation of a self-replicating molecule capable of mutation and subject to natural selection. After that, biological evolutionary processes facilitate all that arises afterwards, including you and me.
In any event, life exists in sustaining environments. Recent research indicates that life may be an inevitable consequence of such environments because life increases entropy more quickly than most non-life.
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You don't necessarily have to fit God into the gaps to know how some of this stuff works....
Inserting a god into the gaps does not lead to knowledge, it's just pretending to know.
Quote:...but the odds remain absolutely staggering....
Just not in any way you can demonstrate.
Quote:...And some theists make the argument that a creator is more probable than not under these staggering odds....
Take the time to learn the difference between an argument and a mere assertion. Here, those theists are merely asserting. They present no rational argument.
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That's essentially the crux of the argument.
Also study probability theory. You are misapplying it by assuming a specific and special goal, among other reasons.