(August 5, 2018 at 1:19 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:(July 29, 2018 at 10:01 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) I never said that the FW is incompatible with atheism.
I rather said that most atheists hate the idea of FW so it is rather incompatible with atheists in general not with atheism.
2) To understand the role of the gunas you first got to understand the two opposite forces always present in nature like the positive and negative, yin or yang and so on.
These two forces while are not present in lower form of life such as plants and animals that follow mother nature instinct are instead present in man (men and women of course).
While the positive force try to get you up (up spiritually speaking) the negative one try to push you back towards animal, plant or even matter life so forget for a moment about these gunas and instead try to understand the low of positive and negative which is much much more important.
So I located the verse:
Gita 3.27 Wrote:The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.
https://asitis.com/3
How is this not hard incompatibilism/determinism? I am familiar with both metaphysical models. They say this: the will of a person is not "free will"... it is not a person's choice to do otherwise than he/she does. The will is bound by the laws of nature. It has causes outside of the human psyche, and because these causes are beyond a person's control, so too is a person's will beyond his control.
Unless you can show otherwise: the Bhagavad Gita preaches against free will. I've read the Gita several times with various commentaries/translations, so I should be able to follow any argument you put together.
Wrong again VL.
Good or bad karma can pop up anytime even when you think that it is you that are in control with your FW.
Suppose you like someone.
You make some effort to conquer the heart of that person and the effort is successful.
At this stage you come to the conclusion that it is thanks to your effort that you are successful when in reality it is your positive karma that allow this.
If your karma would not have allowed that because you wouldn't deserve that particular success in this life then no matter as you would have tried.
You would not have succeeded so your free will to choose or do things depend on your karma and the karma is controlled by the supreme entity (according to my beliefs and yoga).
FW is there in every humans but also karma is there and also the supreme controller of this karma is there so all factors will have to be taken in account.
The will is bound by the laws of nature but what are these laws anyway?
It is all about karma.
That karma that allow or doesn't allow to give way to your FW.
The laws of nature are those who decide and these laws are bound by your good or bad karma and your karma is dealing with decisions taken with your FW in previous lives.
It sound all very complicated but once you understand the law of actions and reactions you also understand why your FW must deal with your karma before is really free to act.
The Bhagavad Gita does not preaches against free will otherwise there wouldn't be the karma itself.
Karma is caused by decisions taken with our FW so FW must be there.
