(September 19, 2011 at 2:23 am)Justtristo Wrote:(September 19, 2011 at 2:15 am)Minimalist Wrote:Quote:The earliest undisputed reference which survives outside the bible for the existence of Jesus was by Tacitus (around 105 C.E.) which he got clearly from here-say.
No one in antiquity cites the Tacitus reference, not xtian, not pagan. Much like the Testimonium Flavianum it appears to be a much later forgery. Part of it appears in a 5th century work called Chronica by Sulpicius Severus but without the "Pilate the procurator" reference which xtians like to wrap their scrotums around. Severus does not cite Tacitus as his source, either, which gives the impression that he was the original author of the piece.
Please forward me a paper which discusses about this, if such a passage was a forgery that is not surprising since Christians will happily lie and deceive others for the betterment of their faith.
I keep this handy for just these occasions, Justt.
(I've used Peter Kirby's Early Christian Writings web site to spot check.)
http://carrington-arts.com/cliff/Nero.htm
Here is the citation from Severus' Chronica.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PATRISTC/PII11-5.TXT
Book II
Quote:CHAPTER XXIX.
Is the meantime, the number of the Christians being now very large, it
happened that Rome was destroyed by fire, while Nero was stationed at
Antium. But the opinion of all cast the odium of causing the fire upon the
emperor, and he was believed in this way to have sought for the glory of
building a new city. And in fact, Nero could not by any means he tried
escape from the charge that the fire had been caused by his orders. He
therefore turned the accusation against the Christians, and the most cruel
tortures were accordingly inflicted upon the innocent. Nay, even new kinds
of death were invented, so that, being covered in the skins of wild beasts,
they perished by being devoured by dogs, while many were crucified or slain
by fire, and not a few were set apart for this purpose, that, when the day
came to a close, they should be consumed to serve for light during the
night. In this way, cruelty tint began to be manifested against the
Christians. Afterwards, too, their religion was prohibited by laws which
were enacted; and by edicts openly set forth it was proclaimed unlawful to
be a Christian. At that time Paul and Peter were condemned to death, the
former being beheaded with a sword, while Peter suffered crucifixion. And
