On Hell and Forgiveness

[Angrboda]

Now liberally insert 'allegedly' or 'I speculate' or 'I read in a book' into your post, and you'll immediately clear the air of that lingering odor of dishonest assertion that always accompanies Christian talk of the afterlife.

I always assume that people write and say what they think and believe. I don't have to be told. Adding those particular qualifiers do not add anything to the root claim. If I say "I believe that motorcycles are dangerous." means no more and no less than when I say "motorcycles are dangerous."

I suppose one could nit-pick and say that the first sentence is self-referencial whereas the second has an external reference. It seems as if you are reading "dishonesty" into the statements made by Christians that you would not attribute to statements made during casual conversations.

As an interesting experiment, one I've done myself, try to go for a whole week without saying "I think..." before you say what you think. I came away with a greater awareness of how much time I spend talking about myself rather than listening to those of others..

I think Crossless was making a point about the speculative nature of all this. That you and CL chose to take it literally I think simply means that you were missing the point.

The radical multiplicity of ideas about this stuff, even within a faith like Catholicism paints a very dark picture of its overall credibility. I would be less skeptical if it weren't the case that Christianity is a paint by numbers exercise wherein the participants are always coloring outside the lines. It seems rather obvious that the lot of you are just making this shit up, ad hoc, and that it isn't based upon anything but your imagination.