In UK atheists considred more moral than theists.

[Bob Kelso]

False/obtuse dichotomy.

Is it, Drich? Is it really? Now I won’t speak for you, you can do that:

because you are brain washed... making amendments= we did not know what the F we were talking about hence the change. but this time everything is truthful/fact.. till you have to change it again and again and again...

The above doesn’t leave a lot of room for conjecture on your opinion of science changing it’s information with new data. Just working with what you put out, guy.

I’d like to make the humble suggestion of saying what you mean, explicitly. Whatever worthwhile points you could have made for your arguments are wasted through your lobbing of horseshit, then crying “gotcha” when people complain about the smell. Then you state what you “actually” meant*.

*I’m being generous here, frankly I think you’re full of it.

bobbie this is not an either or situation. the problem lies when one takes a theory based system of learning and makes it his authority/position in order to remove and or replace God. Someone like this would often cite the great faith one must have in God, when an equal expenditure of faith is needed in an ever changing method of learning. but you would never hear one of you say that. you have complete trust in this system of truth, that is ever changing.. which means your truth your facts can not be true, which points to a large volume of faith to maintain something to be true when you know it could change!

You are comparing apples to combustion engines. Faith in a deity (and the teachings in your Bible) and trust in the empirical methodology that is the scientific method, by which we have come to understand so much of the universe we inhabit, are so vastly different that it boggles my mind that theists try to make the comparison.

For example I can prove to you the world is no more round than it is flat! yet here you are cheerleading that outdated notion as if it were God's truth... yet when I correct you you will shrug it off and say close enough.. (which is what people of faith say when they are wrong.)

Oh for the love of Talos, Drich. Lay talk is a thing, when people use the word round it’s because they’d rather not have a conversation about Geodesy or use terms like “oblate spheroid” every damn time the subject raises it’s hoary head.

I was hoping you would take the... "invitation" to push the conversation more into this direction.. So do you think church doctrine has changed to allow gay people? or do you think people have changed? what of those who have not? (I don't live in england or europe haven't seen any gay run churches yet..) well I have seen gay people in church, but 'were not gay yet.'

Yes, to both. Doctrine and people change, usually hand in hand. Now I wonder why that is? Why would the “Mandate of Heaven” change with the times? It’s a pickle alright.

To give an example look at the best known sect in the world, the Catholic Church. Oh, they use slippery language (hundreds of years of practice y’know) but their doctrine “develops” as they’re wont to say.

Does your church still abide slavery, racism or such things? If they don’t it’s because their doctrine changed with the times. As for those who don’t? Traditionalists aren’t exactly receptive to change, are they?

bobert that is not true at all. I am pointing out you are trading truth for speculation and best guesses. that when you speak of truth you speak in faith, and ridicule us for having the same faith. As if faith in one is not the same faith in the other. except one is right and the other is admittedly wrong all the time.

Yeah, no. I accept that there are human limitations in what we can know as the “truth”, Drich. Are we to be faulted for things we didn’t or don’t yet know? Ignorance isn’t as dirty of a word as you’d like it to be. Ignorance is simply room for growth, as long as you don’t stonewall it with bullshit. Bullshit like pretend half-answers from several thousand year old religions.

In the pursuit of fairness though, new age woo isn’t much better.

I am sorry you have to live in a world so befuddled with grey you must keep yourself in the dark about thing we can know as truth..

Life is intricate, Drich. Complexity may scare you, but I don’t take pleasure in simplistic, self serving, lies about reality.

oh, boy if that is not a confession of faith You don't know what one is! Did you know only half the faith you describe here is needed for God to come into your life?!

Please, do explain to me how an admission of human limitation is, in any way, an admission of faith.

content with ignorance.. I somewhat used that earlier, in that most of you do not want a fate any greater than that of your neighbor. that contentment of ignorance is the doom of a lemming. If wisdom and knowledge is offered why not receive it?

As I said before, ignorance isn’t as dirty of a word as you’d like it to be. I will take an admission of honest ignorance, and a curiosity to find out what the answers are, over woo any day.

I am comfortable saying “I don’t know”. There’s a difference between that and willful stupidity.

you ever hear an echo before bruh?
Hear's a bit-o-wisdom you don't seem to be fond of... lemmings.. they populate both sides of the of the argument, meaning my side has them and your side has them... here's the thing.. if you can't see any of those lemmings on your side of the argument... it is because you are one!

There’s that willful stupidity I was talking about. Great example, man.