RE: Atheists who announce "I'm good without god"
September 29, 2018 at 11:33 pm
(This post was last modified: September 29, 2018 at 11:51 pm by RoadRunner79.)
(September 29, 2018 at 4:09 pm)IWNKYAAIMI Wrote:(September 29, 2018 at 9:34 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: It seems that I mostly seem to see this in response to the moral argument for God. This type of response would indicate that they don't understand the moral argument; hence the incorrect response.
No. I'm pointing out that your sentence made absolutely no sense.. Hence I pointed it out.
That’s why I clarified my response!
(September 29, 2018 at 5:49 pm)polymath257 Wrote:(September 29, 2018 at 10:20 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: That you are arguing that atheists or theists are more moral, shows my point.
Although if you believe that morality is subjective, it is difficult to even make such a classification at , because morality is based on the subject. You are not speaking to something external when talking about good or evil but your state of mind or your opinion. Which may of course be different relative to the subject. If people really believed that morality was subjective, then such statements are nonsense.
We are a social species. That is objective. Social species need rules to live by to preserve the social order. That is objective. Those rules tend to be preserved under evolution because they work. That is objective. Even other animal have a sense of compassion and fairness. That is objective.
Ultimately, morality boils down to rules for society that are based on compassion and a sense of fairness. Any other standard just leads to more misery and oppression. In this tendency, religion is one of the many forces that pushes away from fairness and compassion. It is far from the only one, but other dogmatic thought systems are also prone to this substitution for compassion for some other ideal.
Part of the issue is a precise definition of 'objective' and 'subjective'. Morality is ultimately about how humans live with other humans. That depends on the conditions under which they live. That makes morality subjective to some extent. On the other hand, there are certain rules that seem to be almost genetic. That points to an objective aspect: certain moral rules simply work and are selected for over time.
Almost every society is against killing members of that society for no reason. But almost every society is in favor of killing in self defense by at least some in the society. Every society encourages looking at motherhood as a positive thing (at least until recently, when overpopulation has become an issue). And every society also encourages responsibility to the young. ALL of these are simply aspects of being a social species. In that sense, those standards are objective: any social species is going to have them to some extent.
On the other hand, societies differ greatly on which aspects of behavior that harm nobody are regarded as immoral. So such rules tend to be subjective and dependent on specific societies and conditions.
From what you have said here. I don't think that you understand the moral argument. And I do think that you should learn what is meant when talking about objective morality. I won't be on much for a couple of days unfortunately.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther