A world without Christianity

[Grasshopper]

These are hypothetical question I thought we could debate so it shouldn't start a flame war I feel.
The main point of this thread is to point out history wouldn't be any less violent if Christianity did not exist. Here are the topics-

1) What would the world be like if Christianity was never started? What would the world history be like if Jesus never existed? (Rule no. 1- No cheap answers saying Jesus never existed anyways. )

2) What would happen if Christianity disappeared tomorrow? I mean what if suddenly everyone gave up Christianity and the religious institutions no longer operated?

So here are my answers. Obviously I'm going to be on the pro side and hope other Christians are too. Atheists feel free to refute (DUH!) and theists feel free to add.

Before starting, I'd like to call bullshit on claims that say religion destroyed the world. With over 99% of the world believing in some higher power in the past it's easy to blame religion for just about anything.

For 1) here it goes-
1- The most basic and I guess most stupid, we'd have no John, peter, matthew, paul, Mary as names. Most names today are derived from Christian names.
2- Getting serious, Emperor Nero wouldn't have anyone to blame the Rome fire on, and lives would've been spared. He may have been ousted.
3- Paganism would've survived a tad bit longer, gladiator games and men fighting animals and getting killed would continue.
4- The Olympic games would continue. Yes it's a pity they were stopped.
5- Rome would've fallen much earlier and much more violently to Atilla the hun if pope Leo hadn't persuaded him to retreat.
6- The churches wouldn't have any stake in the system of feudalism. The people wouldn't have to pay taxes. This is good.
7-After the western Roman Empire fell, the monks were the only ones who kept writing, and scholasticism alive because they wanted to keep preserving the bible. No Christianity means no monks and no bible which means no motivation like the rest of Europe to keep literacy intact.

8- Islam would develop, with the exclusion of jesus in it. The muslims would settle in Europe like they did in Africa where rarely did the practicioners of the Traditional African religion oppose them. Charles Martel wouldn't'nt be born if the line of frankish kings was eliminated. Being a pagan, or non religious civilization, Europe would be home to muslims just as Africa. The kingdoms of western Europe and the Byzantine empire wouldn't have any reason to unite. And since there was no large desert to cross, they'd have reached the British isles in no time.

9- The crusades wouldn't have happened . . . Yes. That's good again. But if the muslins weren't attacking there would be no crusades. The muslims were already in Spain and invading the byzantine empire and without any friendly support from the western kingdoms it would've quickly fallen. Yes the conquest of the holy Land would've been unnecessary, and the church shouldn't have asked for the aid of others, but still I think the reason we're not muslim today is because all of Europe stood united under a single faith and landed an effective blow on the Abbassid Caliphate. Without being united under a common goal/fear, I see no reason why england or france would side with each other and push the muslims back from the byzantine borders. What followed afterwards was simply land grab masked under faith.

10- Now getting back to if Europe stayed pagan or non religious. After the fall of Rome monks produced bibles by hand to keep literacy intact. (Of course the muslims helped too)
What would Gutenberg first publish if not the bible? Canterbury tales? (Would we have Canterbury tales without Christianity? Hmm . . .) Would Gutenberg be literate without the monks' efforts at preserving and translating roman era writings?

11- the first universities were started by Christian theologians/scholars. But since after the fall of Rome barbarisnism took hold and literacy fell, would it be wise to think we would be more better off ( technologically and scientifically) than we are now?
12- During times of emergency like plague and war, nuns and monks served others. But I admit, atheists could've done that too. So don't count this.
13-Now IF by some miracle, Europe did advance technologically, consider this- since technological advancement and disbelief in god has nothing to do with good morals and peace, (communists) what would've stopped the European kingdoms from taking over the New World? NOTHING. The western colonization and slavery would've gone forth even without Christianity. Perhaps justified by survival of the fittest.
Remember Romans had slaves and up till recently slavery was not frowned upon. In fact the early church in Rome campaigned for humane treatment of slaves.
14- Galileo would've been allowed to share his views. That's also good. But fact- they were allowing him to present it as a scientific theory, as copernicus did. But it was HE who wanted the church to declare it theologically. They didn't want to do that, he made a big fuss, they arrested him.
15- The Catholic-protestant wars wouldn't have happened- true. But those wars were fought because they thought the other faction was going to attack them. Mistrust. Btw- out of the 10 most destructive wars, only 1 is Christian based.

That's all that comes to mind right now. If I remember I'll add more.
Please note- You cannot end in 1 sentence saying the Roman Empire wouldn't have fallen. It fell to pagan barbarians and wasn't weakened by Christianity.

Ps- if I may have seemed condescending, please note that it was not my intention.

For 2- simply- someone will have to find some place to move those orphans, sick people, crippled, old and children in 3rd world countries who can't afford school

[FatAndFaithless]

This isn't so much condescending as simply utterly baseless speculation without a grain of historical perspective.

[Grasshopper]

This isn't so much condescending as simply utterly baseless speculation without a grain of historical perspective.

Well you guys speculate on how we would be colonizing mars if Christianity never existed. Why not the other way around?
still . . . Give it a try

[Minimalist]

What would the world be like if Christianity was never started? What would the world history be like if Jesus never existed? (Rule no. 1- No cheap answers saying Jesus never existed anyways. )

Sorry, he didn't exist, which means someone invented him and the whole bullshit story anyway. Therefore, history would most likely have unfolded in a similar manner.

[robvalue]

I think if there was no christianity (invented), things would be so utterly different that you can't just swap around a few events and say "this is what would have happened instead". In my opinion, if there was no christianity, a different religion would likely have taken its place. Maybe it would have been worse, maybe better.

My history isn't great, but it seems to me that xianity was the winner of a brawl between several religions. Take that away and another one wins instead. But I think the one that wins is fairly likely to be ruthless in nature, given the times.

It's also so different to how it was back then as to be a new religion now anyhow. At least while it's being kept in check by secularism.

[Grasshopper]

I'm going to check all answers in 8 hours or so after I wake up. So far 2 people have failed to provide refutement

[professor]

That was very good Grasshopper, yes, the Muslims would have had Europe and the whole world would be like the Muslim nations now.
Atheists ought to be thankful.

[Grasshopper]

I think if there was no christianity (invented), things would be so utterly different that you can't just swap around a few events and say "this is what would have happened instead". In my opinion, if there was no christianity, a different religion would likely have taken its place. Maybe it would have been worse, maybe better.

My history isn't great, but it seems to me that xianity was the winner of a brawl between several religions. Take that away and another one wins instead. But I think the one that wins is fairly likely to be ruthless in nature, given the times.

It's also so different to how it was back then as to be a new religion now anyhow. At least while it's being kept in check by secularism.

I know you can't swap a few events around but for arguments sake I added whichever events came to mind.
Also, out of all those religions the outcome could've been no religion too. Think about it, Paganism lingers for a century or 2 and later an atheist movement grows.
Good answer and you argue really well so a question specifically for you.
Now with the historical events I've listed, can you tell me how YOU think events would've gone forth differently from what I wrote if Paganism was replaced by atheism by lets say the 8th century? Or take any century you see fit.
Remember we're all just speculating.
I'll be eager to read an answer tomorrow

[FatAndFaithless]

Fuck off prof.

[Chad32]

It's hard to say what western society would be like if christianity never existed, because it played such a big role. It did come to be, and we can't get around that, but we can figure out what does and doesn't work for the betterment of the Human species. Theocracies don't work. Countries that put more emphasis on equal rights and tolerance tend to do better than deeply religious countries.

We know what the world was like before judaism and christianity. Some places had already gotten a jump on trying to teach equality, and end slavery, and giving democracy a try.

We can go back and forth about the good and bad things that would have happened if things had been different, but I don't think it matters as much as just educating the people about what really is best for all people of all beliefs. Worry less about an afterlife that we can't prove exists, and worry more about this life that we know exists.