On Hell and Forgiveness

[Whateverist]

I think he is referring to the maintenance of a predetermined conclusion come hell or high-water.  Personally, no matter how faithfully a belief has served me I would prefer to always allow its extinction when a better one becomes apparent.

Eventually, though atheism, and all it implied, started to feel like an uncomfortable fit for me. I see nothing but an inevitable decent into nihilism. YMMV.

Indeed. For me atheism is an awkward label. I fully believe in 'something more' but I refuse to impose a form for it to take. But I assume the something more is entirely supported by the natural world and that the supernatural as a category is a fruit obtained by crossing over-intellectualizing with a hope that the answer may be found within a traditional form. My 'faith' is in the unconscious mind being the seat of the something more but like every other belief I hold it must fend for itself. If something better comes along it could be defeated by a better explanation and I will have lost nothing.

For me, between nihilism and the authority of tradition there is plenty of room for depth of experience, understanding and relationships which I find entirely satisfying. I desire to live this life on its own terms and to see it unvarnished. So far I don't find it wanting in any way.

I truly sympathize with the negative experiences many atheists had during their formative years. I still remember some paraministry guy lecturing our youth group about D&D being a form of demon worship and how rock bands put subliminal Satanic messages in their songs. It was laughable...like those simplistic pamphlets about YEC. I also remember having to watch "Like a Thief in the Night" when I was just a kid. It was terrifying! When I was a senior in high school, a church elder, in blubbering tears, confessed to the congregation to having diddled his daughter and begging us all for forgiveness. Then during spring break, I went to church in my hometown and they were passing around a petition to express their outrage at "The Last Temptation of Christ". I'm pretty sure I was the only person there who saw it.

I give you credit for being a more credible 'ex-atheist' than the horde of apologists who say the same and then immediately say things that make you wonder if they even know what that means.

What I'm saying is that I've seen and experienced all the same obvious bassackwardness of religion in America that many AF members have. And yet that doesn't change my basic belief that the larger Christian tradition with its rich intellectual history, the great faith of Eric Liddle and Bonhoeffer, and internal struggles to understand and live out the Gospel...the larger tradition has something profound and essential to say about the human condition. I acknowledge the shortcomings and failures of the church. At the same time, I see a firm foundation under the tottering construction built on top of it.

I agree that there are many more legions of unthinking believers than there are others but I have managed to find quite a few of the interesting ones. These to me are interesting and worth talking with. But while I've found a few who seem every bit as grounded in reality and humanity as anyone else, I've never heard anything close to a good reason for anyone else to believe as they do. The better ones never suggest that such a reason exists and are happy enough to admit that their faith required a leap but they have found the result to their liking for a number of reasons. For my part I can allow that it does not require a damaged mind to incorporate religious belief into a modern mindset but I surely do not find many who succeed.