RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
October 5, 2018 at 11:20 am
(This post was last modified: October 5, 2018 at 11:26 am by GrandizerII.)
(October 4, 2018 at 11:28 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(October 4, 2018 at 11:00 am)Grandizer Wrote: So all these Christian theologians saying Jesus actually experienced fear were wrong, and you just happen to be right because ... why ... you overrate yourself? lol ...
This might be one of those areas where SteveII and I might see things slightly differently. IMO when emotions are coupled with purpose they are transformed. Training and running a marathon is painful and grueling. My tri-athlete friend simultaneously welcomed and dreaded it. Those emotions are not mutually exclusive; but rather, complimentary. What he gained by his achievement and experience remains very valuable to him.
Did Jesus experience fear? Steve says no. And yet, he says he probably agrees with you. Do you agree with him on that?
(October 4, 2018 at 12:07 pm)SteveII Wrote:(October 4, 2018 at 11:28 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: This might be one of those areas where SteveII and I might see things slightly differently. IMO when emotions are coupled with purpose they are transformed. Training and running a marathon is painful and grueling. My tri-athlete friend simultaneously welcomed and dreaded it. Those emotions are not mutually exclusive; but rather, complimentary. What he gained by his achievement and experience remains very valuable to him.
We probably agree. This started when I said bravery was not an attribute of God. Then the question was why. I said because bravery requires one to overcome fears and fear is not something God deals with. Grand claims that Jesus is God and Jesus fears. He is wrong on both counts. First Jesus is not just God. Second I think the correct Christology is that the mind/soul of Jesus was divine. As the creator of all there is and a knowledge of all that his sacrifice entailed, I don't think that bravery was even a possible attribute of Jesus--let along described in the NT.
Hypostatic union Jesus is both God and man. One person, two natures. If Jesus the man experienced fear, then Jesus the God experienced the same ... because they're the same person according to the doctrine.
And according to various theologians, Jesus did experience fear as implied in the passage. He was basically shitting himself and, for a second, wanted the Father to take away the "cup" of suffering from him.
