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How Can We Have Moral Direction If God Controls Everything?
#35
RE: How Can We Have Moral Direction If God Controls Everything?
(October 11, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:
(October 10, 2018 at 9:00 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: You are trying to reason to both these conclusions.  The Bible doesn’t say tat we don’t have free will; but that we are responsible for our choices. I think that this is bad reasoning. 

I knew you where going to say this. Well at least fairly certain.   Does that mean that you didn’t have a choice. How does the knowledge of another effect if you choose. And if you did have a choice to not say this, then how you where created, has no consequence on you having a choice. 

However, consciousness is a difficulty if we are just matter in motion, and our actions are just the inevitable result of electro-chemical reactions. You can’t make logical choices, you can’t make moral choices, or really any choice at all. You can’t  even determine the truth of your claims; it’s out of your control. There’s isnt really a you a true all, it’s Justin an illusion, created by physical reactions. 

If you couldn’t do other than what God knows, then perhaps it goes against libertarian free will. But I’m more of a compatabilist, and only think that you made the choice is necessary.

When you add omnipotence, foreknowledge does preclude free will. If god set everything up, he is fully responsible for creating the emotions that compel men to do what we do.

As many describe libertarian free will, I would agree.  However; I'm not a believer in libertarian free will.   What I am saying is that they can make an independent choice as a moral agent. Then knowledge, that is outside of the person, has no effect on the making of that choice.  When I say free will, I don't mean, that any choice can be made; but that it is made freely and according to ones will. 

And as I said, if you hold to materialism, that there is just space, time, and matter governed by the laws of physics, then you have no free will of any kind.   You don't have a moral free will, or even the ability to think about logical choices.   It's just a falling of the dominos, with no way to choose.   X conditions, are processed, and given Y result; regardless of truth or validity of the matter.  So as to the other part of the post, it appears that for a materialist view, that along with having no moral basis which which to say what is right or wrong, you couldn't decide it if there was.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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RE: How Can We Have Moral Direction If God Controls Everything? - by RoadRunner79 - October 11, 2018 at 12:53 pm

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