RE: How Can We Have Moral Direction If God Controls Everything?
October 12, 2018 at 10:04 am
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2018 at 10:11 am by HappySkeptic.)
(October 11, 2018 at 7:55 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:(October 11, 2018 at 5:55 pm)HappySkeptic Wrote: Free will has nothing to do with materialism or determinism.
I'm not sure I agree with this statement in particular, although I think I see where you are coming from. My guess is that you are arguing the hard incompatibilist stance; you say that if one's choices are caused by antecedent states and events then one's will is not free will. (In which case, I agree with your position. I am a hard incompatibilist.)
But the matter is hardly settled. Libertarian free willists argue that because the universe is essentially not deterministic but --because of quantum mechanics-- choice is a wave function. And this wave function collapses when the observer becomes conscious of his choice. So, to the libertarian, the absence of determinism makes free will possible. I find the libertarian free willists' position quite implausible, but (still) this metaphysical dispute is far from being solved.
Dualism is another way that free will could occur in the universe, provided that souls do not operate under the same laws of cause and effect that material substances do. Dualism itself is a highly problematic metaphysical theory, but if it did turn out to be true, then we'd have to find some way of studying souls to determine if they were free agents of some kind. Some, like Sam Harris, disagree with me here, but I think dualistic free willists have a point.
I'm hoping not to have missed the point of your post altogether (which is quite possible). Let me know if I have.
Nice post. I didn't know the term "incompatibilist", but of the three options you have pointed out, I would put myself in that category.
I recognize the possibility of quantum-mechanics having something to do with free will, but as a physicist, I lean against it being a primary cause. The idea that "consciousness causes collapse" hasn't been mainstream thought for probably 70 years.
I am strongly against dualism. To me, it supposes an alternate universe of souls that operate on some mysterious parallel basis (or no basis at all). There is no reason for this idea beyond religious belief. We should look for answers within the universe, not imagine things that are outside it.
(October 11, 2018 at 7:30 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(October 11, 2018 at 6:20 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I would tend to agree with most of what you said here. I think that a soul, is what adds the will to the equation.
Something like that. Happy is simply making an argument from ignorance. The only options presented are mechanical determinism or randomness? Are those truly the only two options? And is either of those nuanced enough? There is a distinction it seems between determined by circumstances and a willful act of determination. If there is a chance element then perhaps there is an option to load the dice in favor of a preferred outcome.
Are you suggesting that a deity loads the dice? Or that a supernatural soul loads the dice?
I am implicitly rejecting dualism, and quantum-mechanics clearly says that randomness is truly random (you can't "will" a quantum-mechanical outcome). I recognize that people like Roger Penrose have thoughts about quantum-mechanics and consciousness, but I think they are way off in the realm of pseudo-science.