(October 11, 2018 at 10:41 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(October 11, 2018 at 12:00 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: But what about Calvinists? I'm asking. Cuz I don't know. Apparently they don't believe in free will.
I think they are more compatablist oriented. They'll have to answer for themselves. Otherwise, talking about free-will vs. determinism is messy because you cannot do it without having a defined theory of time and clear ontology. IMHO we have to muddle through this one, make some tentative assumptions, and live in accordance with what our philosophy entails. One persistent question is this. If my deeds are inevitable why is the illusion of consciously deliberation and control even needed? Thoughts and feelings would be just along for the ride, so to speak. Personally, I agree with Sartre (or was it Camus, not sure) that Man is condemned to be free. I cannot imagine what it would be like to live under the presumption that my entire being follows mechanically from the initial conditions of the physical universe. YMMV.
(October 11, 2018 at 9:48 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I am guessing, that you are going to reference God hardening the heart of Pharaoh or something like that.
The same life-giving sun that softens butter will harden clay.
The problem with this argument is that Pharaoh tried over and over to release the Hebrews. Every time Pharaoh determined to let the people go that's when god hardened his heart. That was god taking deliberate action against the man's inclination to do what was right.
The god who created man out of clay shouldn't blame the clay for not acting like butter.
The purpose of this thread is not to determine whether humans have free will or even whether the bible supports our free will. The purpose of this thread is theists using the idea of god's will to justify everything. Even things over which we have no control.
Whether it's a hurricane, a child contracting cancer or christians getting gunned down in church, christians justify their continued belief in a god who allows such things by saying it's all a part of his mysterious will.
And yes, Whether it's slavery or genocide or the election of a bad president, it is christians who hide behind god's will.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire
Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
