RE: Did you choose your God or inherit him?
September 24, 2011 at 4:38 pm
(This post was last modified: September 24, 2011 at 6:01 pm by lucent.)
I don't expect any such accomodation by atheists and agnostics; I'm not here seeking your approval for my beliefs. I am just here to have conversation on these topics, as that is the point of these boards, isn't it? When I was agnostic I have to admit I didn't give such accomodation to theists, and I certainly didn't give it to atheists either. I am also well aware of your opinions, which you dress up as fact, declaring that you are in sole possession of reason and logic. You, and many others seem to think a rational argument consists of insults and implicating that someone is intellectually deficient. This schoolyard mentality in itself implicates a weak intellect, I have to say. I've met very few of you who understand the philosophical disciplines that your beliefs are predicated on. Can you prove your empiricist viewpoint? What evidence do you have that makes you so confident there is no God? What is the basis for this evidence?
I E. Eden. Christians call becoming as Gods a fall.
I had always found that strange and found later that Jews, the original writers of those scriptures did not think it a fall either but an elevation.
Strange how they do not read their scriptures literally yet Christians, usurpers of the Jewish, God started to, and reversed their interpretations. Idiocy that.
The jews, if you actually read the scriptures, were guilty of persecuting, ignoring, and occassionally murdering every prophet the Lord ever sent them. They are a rebellious and hard hearted people that the Lord disciplined continually, even sending them off to be enslaved for hundreds of years. There were a lot of things they didn't get right. To think that going from perfection to living in a cursed world full of suffering and death is an elevation is a nonsense interpretation, because there was nothing under the law that was capable of bringing them to salvation.
You say that faith is a gift from God.
I say that faith without facts is for fools.
I agree with you, but my faith isn't blind. How about yours? Where do you get your facts from?
You are a sheep and I am a goat so the animosity you will always see. Live with it or ignore me. Do not expect respect.
Your intolerance and anger shows the deficiency of your truth; it obviously brings you no peace.
2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Where your logic breaks up is that Jesus was not a mere man.
Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
A man isn't capable of redeeming his brother because he himself is convicted under the law. No one under the law can bear the inquity of the other because no one is righteous:
Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
What you're ignoring is this prophecy:
Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
What Jesus did was a work of God, not man. He wasn't murdered; he went to the cross willingly:
Luke 22:42
saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”
Matthew 26:43
Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?
John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
He was a willing sacrifice to perfectly fulfill the requirements of the law and break the power of sin and death. He undid the entire work of Satan on calvary.
Colossians 2:15
He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
How do I know this as a fact?
Criminal logic. Take it from me, I know evil.
I was born with---
Taming these is what gave me what I needed to push my apotheosis and develop the wisdom to recognize you lack of good moral thinking.
Seems there is nothing you can teach me, except how not to think.
You are unwise if you think you have reached the level of divinity, especially with the faulty logic and unbalanced emotion you are showing here. Corruption only leads to more corruption. Perfection never comes from imperfection. Your sin is a legal matter which you cannot resolve without mediation. If you try to represent yourself on your own merit, your righteousness will be counted for what it is, filthy rags before a Holy God. You can only be saved by grace, and the only way made for reconciliation with God is Jesus Christ.
(September 24, 2011 at 8:23 am)Epimethean Wrote: Just here to call bullshit on lucent again. YOUR post is loaded with presumptions, and, as all of them are essentially subjective, let's default back the OP's questions, shall we? You seem still inclined to think that your fantasy/delusion/hallucination should get equal weight of consideration-or even pride of place-in a group primarily composed of agnostics and atheists. If you don't mind me asking, why do you feel that way?
I E. Eden. Christians call becoming as Gods a fall.
I had always found that strange and found later that Jews, the original writers of those scriptures did not think it a fall either but an elevation.
Strange how they do not read their scriptures literally yet Christians, usurpers of the Jewish, God started to, and reversed their interpretations. Idiocy that.
The jews, if you actually read the scriptures, were guilty of persecuting, ignoring, and occassionally murdering every prophet the Lord ever sent them. They are a rebellious and hard hearted people that the Lord disciplined continually, even sending them off to be enslaved for hundreds of years. There were a lot of things they didn't get right. To think that going from perfection to living in a cursed world full of suffering and death is an elevation is a nonsense interpretation, because there was nothing under the law that was capable of bringing them to salvation.
You say that faith is a gift from God.
I say that faith without facts is for fools.
I agree with you, but my faith isn't blind. How about yours? Where do you get your facts from?
You are a sheep and I am a goat so the animosity you will always see. Live with it or ignore me. Do not expect respect.
Your intolerance and anger shows the deficiency of your truth; it obviously brings you no peace.
2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
Where your logic breaks up is that Jesus was not a mere man.
Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
A man isn't capable of redeeming his brother because he himself is convicted under the law. No one under the law can bear the inquity of the other because no one is righteous:
Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
What you're ignoring is this prophecy:
Isaiah 53:5
"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."
What Jesus did was a work of God, not man. He wasn't murdered; he went to the cross willingly:
Luke 22:42
saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.”
Matthew 26:43
Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?
John 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
He was a willing sacrifice to perfectly fulfill the requirements of the law and break the power of sin and death. He undid the entire work of Satan on calvary.
Colossians 2:15
He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.
1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
How do I know this as a fact?
Criminal logic. Take it from me, I know evil.
I was born with---
Taming these is what gave me what I needed to push my apotheosis and develop the wisdom to recognize you lack of good moral thinking.
Seems there is nothing you can teach me, except how not to think.
You are unwise if you think you have reached the level of divinity, especially with the faulty logic and unbalanced emotion you are showing here. Corruption only leads to more corruption. Perfection never comes from imperfection. Your sin is a legal matter which you cannot resolve without mediation. If you try to represent yourself on your own merit, your righteousness will be counted for what it is, filthy rags before a Holy God. You can only be saved by grace, and the only way made for reconciliation with God is Jesus Christ.
(September 24, 2011 at 11:06 am)Greatest I am Wrote:(September 24, 2011 at 7:30 am)lucent Wrote: It isn't accurate to say that I became a Christian on my own, as faith is a gift from God..however, in the sense that I investigated the various belief systems of this world to the fullest extent, and then some, then I will say yes, I came to it on my own. It was predicated on many years of revelation and the journey was experiential, with a lot of research mixed in. I even formally held gnostic beliefs about the demiurge. How I arrived at those views is a very interesting story, in itself.
Your post is loaded with assumptions, tired stereotypes, and your own blatant prejudices. If you want to ask a question that doesn't isn't punctuated with animosity, I'll clarify.
In the meantime, I'll ask you..how did you end up as a gnostic?
Regards
DL
