(November 18, 2018 at 1:36 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:The argument, clearly articulated in the most generous possible light...is "if God doesn't exist, we don't exist. We do exist, therefore god."(November 17, 2018 at 2:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Anyways, we've discussed this argument endlessly. It's been clarified and can be summarized in two premises:
If God doesn't exist or see us exactly as we are, we are an illusion.
We aren't an illusion.
A few additional thoughts. I think there might be some equivocating going on here with the use of the word “illusion”; not that fixing the problem is going to save your argument from its larger flaws, but I think it’s worth noting.
In the first premise you seem to be insinuating that if a god doesn’t exist, then this notion of a perfect, objective self would be illusory to us. But, in the second premise (we are not an illusion) you seem to be talking about our very existence as beings not being an illusion; as in, ‘we do in fact exist, therefore we are not an illusion.’ Almost everyone here disputes the former, but I can’t imagine very many people disagreeing with the latter. That can appear sneaky. You have to be clear about what you mean when you choose words to use in an argument, because things like this can come across as dishonest.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!