Gay Marriage - are you for or against it and why?

[reverendjeremiah]

The "legitimacy" of a marriage is put down by law.

true, and therefore Gay marriage is legitimate according to your own argument, seeing as gay marriage is legal in several states and countries in europe.

It's not really the 5 year mark, or whatsoever. Simply the existence of such a mark in your country shows how much marriage has been worn down and corrupted by people, not really knowing what purpose marriage really serves.

Nope. It shows that the concept of marriage is a dying tradition. Divorce rates have hit over 50%. If you are actually telling the truth and suggesting that your opposition to gay marriage is secular and not religious, then these two facts:

-The legitimization of gay marriage through laws
-The decline of traditional marriage from the real time reactions of citizens who get divorced.

This is very secular and factual information, and if your argument is based on secular reasons, then you must admit that gay marriage is legitimate and traditional marriage is losing popularity among the majority of citizens.

Also, if your arguments are truly secualr, then you would recognize that marriage is something that is ultimately not needed, that children can be born and families can be formed without a marriage certificate. A secular view of marriage also admits that marriage is very much a way for religious and traditional authorities to control relationships and families, among other things and reasons. a quick browsing of Roman Catholic history will show where the church has quickly stepped up and claimed that all non-catholic marriages were null and void whenever they gained majority control of any society.

It's not that I oppose the marriage of gay people because they are gay, it's because marriage is an institution that was always for straight people.

your use of the word "always" shows that you are ignorant to the history of marriage in the world. If you want to argue the traditional role of marriage, then you would know that the mass majority of marriages world wide throughout history were coerced and polygamist favoring one husband and several wives. this is secular based facts. Your arguments do not sound either traditional or secular. Unless you consider "traditional" to be less than 50 years old and based only in certain parts of America, as Utah was traditionally (and still wants to be) polygamistic.

And it's historical roots lie in places that are maybe not emphasized anymore, but are in our subconsciousness. Most people(who are not stupid, and actually plan ahead before doing something) will have kids once they get married. Why? Why not have them before? At the end, it only requires for the male to put his semen into the woman's vagina, it does not need you to be married at all. Think about that. If you can't figure it out, I'll detail it out for ya.

As I have pointed out, your "historical roots" only go back as far as goldwater in certain states in America. I also notice your weasling ways of trying to say that your view of marriage is written into everyones subconscience. This is VERY untrue and manipulative of you. Family is not necesarily written into a persons subconscious. Sex isnt even necessarily written into a persons subconscious because Asexual people do in fact exist. Am I to be considered "faulty" because I do not accept your views of marriage while you suggest that it is "written" in peoples subconscious? How far away are you from that made up, unscientific view from actually considering that gay people have mental problems, or that I have a mental problem, because we disagree with you on marriage?

In reality sex is natural (wether by straights or gays) and marriage is the unnatural (man made) equation here. Marriage is completely unnecessary in reality, but those who wish to control peoples lives and thoughts are the ones who manipulate these man made institutions the most.

No need to detail it for me, as I find you to be much further behind in the concept than I.

I'm not forcing myself on them. In fact, it is them who wants marriage to be changed, so they can have it their way. If gays were able to marry before, and I suddenly came from nowhere, and told them that they could not, that would be forcing my own opinions on them. But that is most certainly not the case.

Sure you are. You are most definitely trying to force yourself upon them. Why else would you suggest your views are " in our subconsciousness. " Furthermore, gays were allowed to marry at many times during the past. then people, like you, came forward and demanded that it be stopped. You obviously have not put much research into this topic. Your ignorance is glaring.

This is why I advocate something else that could work out in America.
After all, being married will most probably give gays nothing more than the rights than the ordinary legal benefits. They will never have children(unless they are lesbian and get pregnant in an artificial way), and they will never raise them to be in accordance with the normal ways that society was built on, because their union actually does not go along with them.

nothing more than full equal status of marriage will be accepted and only accepted. What you are suggesting is "seperate but equal", which is a play on words to avoid saying "these people are not worthy of being like me." You may as well suggest that gays sit at the back of the bus as well. Why should they complain? They should know they are seperate from you..yet somehow "equal". When you say "they will never have children" should also suggest that you should be opposed to barren heterosexuals from also marrying. But something tells me that you will make an exception for them in your oppressive views. gays canvery much be able to adopt, but I suppose you are against that as well. Homosexuality is not a "subspecies". They are humans, just like you and I.

I also would like to see MAJOR citations coming from you that suggests that gays raise only gay children. Might i point out that 100% of gay people come from heterosexual sex. According to your view, then heterosexuals have failed in raising children in accordance to "normal ways".

I completely expect you to dodge all of my points and adhere to your oppressive views still. Thats okay. As time goes by, more and more of people who think the way you do are dying off and being replaced by progressive and inclusive secular thinkers. Society is built upon people who are living at the time. At any moment they can change what "society" means, regardless of what you consider to be "normal" or "traditional" views of society.