RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 13, 2019 at 5:54 pm
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2019 at 6:04 pm by Acrobat.)
(January 13, 2019 at 2:13 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote:(January 13, 2019 at 1:28 pm)Acrobat Wrote: It seems you’re one of those who like to argue for arguements sake. The OP asked what do moderates think Jesus died for, I supplied some moderate views.
Regardless of what you think the catholic view is, which I’m doubtful any catholic would agree with.
YOU introduced McCabe, not me. A heretical view in Catholicism.
Argument is not spelled "arguement".
So you're saying Catholics do not agree with the Roman Catholic Catechism ... LMAO.
I see you really know nothing of Catholicism.
You supplied HERETICAL views, perhaps your personal views ?? No Christian says Jesus came merely "to be human".
If that were true, any of the many other wandering preacher/miracle workers would have sufficed.
Catholics EVERY DAY, including today, say they are literally re-enacting, .. "re-enact" the SACRIFICE (the mass) which Jesus was sent to accomplish.
lol?
McCabe’s is considered one of the great catholic theologians, is hardly considered a heretic, especially by Catholics. Unless of course you as an atheist know what Catholics consider heritical more so than Catholics.
It just proves more your ignorance of Catholicism.
(January 13, 2019 at 1:24 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(January 13, 2019 at 8:15 am)Acrobat Wrote: There’s a variety of orthodox view of Atonement. Eastern Orthodox subscribe to a moral view, that Christ died as moral model for the rest of us. Secondly the conception of original sin, fallen world need not be statement about how the world ended up this way, but the way the world is, regardless if it was this way from the beginning or proceeding some events at the start of history. The world in a variety of religions, appears broken, off the mark, not as whole or as good as it ought to be.
Here’s one particular renowned catholic theologian Herbert McCabe’s expression of the meaning of Christ’s death:
“‘The story of Jesus is what the eternal trinitarian life of God looks like when it is projected on to the screen of history, and this means on the screen not only of human history but of sinful human history.
The obedience of Jesus to the Father, his obedience to his mission, is just what the eternal procession of the Son from the Father appears as in history. His obedience consists in nothing else but being in history, human.
Jesus did nothing but be the Son as human; that his life was so colorful, eventful, and tragic is simply because of what being human involves in our world.
We for the most part shy off being human because if we are really human we will be crucified.
If we didn’t know that before, we know it now; the crucifixion of Jesus was simply the dramatic manifestation of the sort of world we have made, the showing up of the world, the unmasking of what we call, traditionally, original sin.
There is no need whatever for peculiar theories about the Father deliberately putting his Son to death.
There is no need for any theory about the death of Jesus.
It doesn’t need any explanation once you know that he was human in our world.
Jesus died in obedience to the Father’s will simply in the sense that the Father will the Son to be human in our world.’
How about belief in a creative order, a reality that posses objective moral values, a transcendent moral reality. That the wrong I perceive exists independently of myself and other such the yellow of my wife’s dress, or the existence of other minds.
Would this also fall into a belief in invisible donkeys, and fairies?
Yes.
Coo, if all it takes to believe in the equivalent of invisible unicorns, is belief in moral realism, that there’s something truly wrong about slavery, the holocaust, then I’m proud card carrying member of the unicorn club. Nice to meet you.