Evolution and Christianity and Salvation

[pocaracas]

Thanks Drich, once more you prove the circularity of any discussion on this subject.

Why indeed...?
Why was the church built by someone who never had any contact with the source material?...

what a misinformed question. What was Christ's ministry? miracles healing and prepping to be the atonement for all of man's sin. Now is that our responsibility as followers of Christ? did the disciples follow this path? They follow christ to the garden, but when they started handing out beatings and crosses all but john scattered... meaning source material that was available was not the foundation of the church. Meaning the church was to take a different path than christ. Jesus Identified this foundation as being confession that he was the son of God. something the disciples were forbidden to teach while he was alive.

Remember that the tale of the disciples that you are basing all, ALL, of this on, came to you from the church that had been established by that Paul guy. Circularity, as you are justifying Paul's version of the church with things that his church compiled... sport.

But you don't care about reality and human psychology, so why should I waste my time with you?

said the douche who dumped a 16 paragraph manifesto on everything else you could speak on without a google search. meaning if you knew more about psychology as evidenced by everything else you have said here you would most certainly word dump a lot load of spam onto what you have already said. Thankfully you don't know enough about the subject to go over it... you just know enough to cite it is the reason Paul is in charge... That's ok when ever you do google it I have several arguements already typed up (I've had this discussion a few dozen times with people much smarter than you are in the last 10 to 15 years already)

Wow... are you wanting to tell me that Paul became the origin of present-day christianity by more than politics?
LOL

Isn't it curious how the man who was actually with the alleged son of god had a view so close to the pre-existing jewish?

because he did not understand te nature of the sacrifice as witnessed with almost all of his interactions with Christ resulting in Christ assigning him the diminuitive (nick name) petros/peter the unstable one.

John and james Sons of thunder! perter the supposed king of the church who failed in everything he did while Jesus was alive get called the first century aramaic equilivent of a douche bag.
Jesus Gave peter the humiliating name because he wanted to always be the first.
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Or so goes the version of the story that came to you. The story that was allowed to get to you by Paul's church. Again, circularity.

2 let's break down this passage in the greek it actually starts in verse 13 of mat 16 (not 17)

I don't care about the Greek. Paul was from Asia Minor (today's Turkey), where he spoke his Greek.
But Peter and Jesus were from Israel, where they spoke Aramaic.
Don't show me a biased text from the victor. Show me the actual history in the original location. It doesn't exist, does it? Why would that be?!

What a f-ing idiot.. "i don't understand what greek is or why it is important so I like a dumb moron will just ignore it."

HEY STUPID Aramaic was not an official language of the empire it was a local or regional dialect much like ebonics or creole meaning there was no official written language. it varied from region to region.

HEY IDIOT, all of the disciples are local and would only know that language. Any story told by them would be in their native language.
The fact that you (and the whole of christianity) cling so much to texts written for far and wide circulation, tells me that the texts already had a very political purpose. As such, they are to be dismissed as untrustworthy.

yes there are aramaic texts but they are written phonetically aramaic had no universal set alphabet or grammar rules.. (again regional alphabet regional grammar which changes from state tot state region to region.

There, that's how the original text should be considered. For I seriously doubt that Jesus said anything to Peter (or James or whatever non-English name he had) in koine greek. Which means that your "analysis" of the greek text is not representative of what would have actually been said. You're, at best, analyzing a translation and assuming it to be faithful to the original meaning (if there ever was such an original at all).
If you can't understand now why I dismiss the greek texts, then I'm sorry... You are truly an idiot.

Look back at history and we will find very little past the book of acts and the 2 books written with his name in them did peter contribute. while the church or every jesus Christ centered church (established by paul not peter/who also went on to write 2/3s of the New testament) established the church on the confession peter made.

You are aware that there was a gospel by Peter that the Church, established by Paul, ended up not including in the bible, right? Geeee, I wonder why?!!!

you mean the bible the church... compiled? just because it was attributed to peter does not mean it is cannon. By the words of Christ Peter was a goof not to be taken seriously all the time.

It is clearly not in the canon declared by the church established by Paul.
Circularity again.

Also, just because a text is canon, doesn't mean that the attributed author was that one for real.

Human philosophical difference of opinion should have no bearing on the divine intent...

then you have no f-ing idea what you are talking about... We have two rule that are absolute in Christianity sport.. EVERY THING ELSE IS BASED ON PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCES!!!!

Which is what makes it, christianity, a sham!
God above should define how reality is. People's opinions should have no say.... sport. But that's not what we see. :hint:

But clearly you are trying to sell a story where human opinion rules, while pretending (and convincing yourself of it in the process) that the rules come from the divine.

Jesus was point blanked asked and he gave two rules. Love God with all your being and your neighbor as your self!

Again, according to the version of the book edited by the church created by Paul.
People, people, people.

As I have been writing on this forum for years, it's all people. All made up by people, for people. Both to comfort and to control people. Made by well meaning people and also by ruthless people. Made by people who were convinced of the truthfulness of what they said and wrote, and by people who made it up.

If it were all made up by people, then would more of you get it? why are most of you still stuck in a works based morality? even outside the church you struggle to prove yourselves to be 'good people?' Jesus Himself is recorded as saying there are no 'good people' meaning that is not the standard in which we are judged.

We get that it was made by people, so it would be exactly the same in a world where there is no god at all.

In fact you know so little of biblical christianity It would seem you have never ever cracked a bible outside of the shadow of the catholic church. or at the very least never look at a passage without the lens of the church telling you what to think.

That is what kills me about people like you. you think you have it all figured out and yet rarely know the basics.

I think I know the basics that you dismiss as given... and those givens are not so given as you like to think they are.

You don't even know enough of the bible to know it wasn't written in aramaic...

Go back and read what I wrote. I told you immediately that there was no such Aramaic text.

Where does your arrogance come from? surly you researched nothing before you spoke. did you want to see how hard i would come dwn on you for trying to correct me with several lines of made up conjecture and bluster? did you thin you could bully my beliefs with the same bull shit you fed yourself with? as if my faith were so feeble.. I have over 10,000 posts here did you think you where the first to bring up this nonsense? or did you think this was your first time making these same broken argument to me? This line of objective thought died in the mid 90s sport.. No one question the greek any more because your peers know it is a standard beyond question for all matters concerning that period of time in those regions religious or not.

So many questions!
First, I have more than 18000 posts, so I got you beat!! (as if that's a measure of anything worth anything at all)

Second, I know more than you may think I know. While you are a brainwashed, ex-junkie, full of shit idiot.
Faith... what sort of god values faith?!

When you look down at the ants in your backyard, do you expect them to have faith in you?...