Evolution and Christianity and Salvation

[Drich]

I've been out smarted?

indeed you have been if you think slavery is not alive and well, and that you think your collective pop morality makes you 'better' than God. Actually you have demonstrated you have been quite foolish in many things you observe and believe, but a direct confrontation is not required to resolve those.

Yah, you keep posting what you think is reality Drich.

indeed I will, but I will also have you note when I post what is real, there is also a point of reference to support it. unlike your assertions based on nothing more than your word. keep that in mind when you try and trivialize what I say. over the BS you believe.

So.. you were trying for... what again with the link to that movie?

the only link i provided was to literal parable of Christ illustrated to music.

Oh, 'Teaching' people with parables. SO you weren't trying to use the movie to actually do something, like, add evidence to back up your position?

do you not understand what evidence is? or do not understand how to illiterate or draw parallels between a principle and something the student may be familiar with?
It's like in star trek when a huge complex problem is diagnosed with a ton of techno babble, and then explained with some everyday thing that anyone could understand..

Why accept , or not accept as the case maybe, a movie even if it presents facts?
Oh, I don't know. Maybe for the same reason I wouldn't present mathew Broderic in 'War Games' as evidence to support any claims I might make about the 80's cold war situation.

then what you are saying is your mind is closed to any information that does not come formatted a certain way.. meaning anyone you approved of could say anything and so long as matthew broderick was not apart of the delivery system you would just gobble up everything they told you... no independent thought no ability to take information from something like a parable and apply it to your own personal situation. nothing. just processing information from places like schools or people you like to listen to.. Why are atheists known as thinkers if they can not take parable and apply the information it is meant to diliver and dicard what is not needed?

Generally because 90% of most movies are simply works of fiction Drich.

P-A-R-A-B-L-E sport! Parable, that is How Jesus taught. He often recorded teaching by using stories and illustrative works to draw parallels between complex things and things people could understand. I do and have done since day one the very same thing! I am proud to be able to walk in his foot steps in my own mordern way!

I in the same vein understand I used Arthur C Clarke quote: third law, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
as my point of reference and not just the movie.. You just happen to only pick up on the movie bit because appearently you are ignorant of the larger work that inspired the movie.
It is not my fault you don't seem to be well read/are unaware of aurther C clark..

If you really want to add things that support your position/argument you'd be better to use things like actual research about the subject from actual experts?

I did dumb ass you are just not smart enough to see the alien movie took clarke's third law and made it into a movie. Not to say I did not take elements of the more recent movie to help the idea assimilate better but in my mind this was a clarke quote and no one was trying to use the movie as evidence. what a simpleton you must be if all you see is a movie.

Again taking clarks broader understanding of technology and magic (probably because he lived in a fulcrum of time where he saw magic being replaced by the explainations that come with technology) I simply applied this to the people of the bronze age. If this where true during the industrial revolution, how much more true would it be from someone who lived in the bronze age facing a being who is light years more advanced than even we are now?

That my slow witted friend is the point I was making, which was a major plot tool in "prometheus". To which if you saw the movie you could see how/why someone from the bronze age would see an engineer as a god. (cave paintings even depicted men worshiping the engineers.) Again why argue arthur c clarke's three rules when the whole thing has been put into a 100 million dollar production and wonderfully illustrated? Something even the dumbest among you can understand, even if they can not reason how why the reference was used. (the reason being you all have been taught to accept information rather than to derive your own conclusions from data provided.)

Again, Not using the whole movie and the aliens as proof of God, as only a slow minded person who never heard of a parable would assume that. no but what if we just used the bit that shows Clarke's thrid law in action where a super advanced being is being worshiped as God because his technology all seems like supernatural ablity.. So now that we have a visual of how that can work we can roll that into the actual historical events and say imagine if God where not a being of magic but one of technology and understanding even we do not understand.. so then how much more 'magic' would God be to a bronze age or an iron age man?

Subsequently who says God has to be magic or supernatural?

Again, if God used real magic or technology, would the writers of the bible know the difference? Could you in this day and age tell the difference?

So what if God's supernatural ability is science and technology based? That my slow friend was the point I was making. Because nothing n the bible says God has to be magic.. only that we do not understand his ways. which simply could mean he is far more advanced than we will ever be. Even so, it does not make him any less God. all it does it take away the broken idea that we worship a wizard which again is in no part of the bible. which is contary to what we know of the universe he has created, which beggs the question again... Why create something you have to move supernaturally though all the time? would not a creator make his creation naturally follow the will and design of the creator? If so what would the universe look like if God was a deity of science and technology... or how would the universe differ than it stands today if God was a God of science and technology???

I would say it would be identical.

That my little buddy is the whole point to the movie reference, not the movie or what it's plot point make, but the idea that science look like magic and because a bronze age man sees magic does not make magic cannon. therefore the idea of God can open up and again assimilate everything science has to say about how this universe works...

But your little mind was reminded about a movie you saw,and it prevented you from seeing anything else because you did not see the bigger picture I laid out rather because I used a trivial method of illustrating a point you though you saw an intellectual deficiency. Shame on you for ignoring content to try and create a personal attack.

Oh goody! Now I see we're getting into slavery appologetics.

says a 2%er who whole live is dependant on modern day slavery.

So... you can't see 'Wage slave' as not being synonymous with actual slavery?

hey-sus chirsto.. How stupid can you be.. do you not have google??
Again retard you are thinking of chattel slavery and even then they made money despite what historical revisionist may say or think. in fact it benefitted slave owners to pay their slaves just enough to by their freedom after 5 to 10 years. why? because the work was back breaking and they would usually be spent after such a tour, and they would take the saves buy back money and buy a fresh new model and either let the old slave go or put him in charge of the new one.. That my stupid friend is how slavery worked in america on most small farms and plantations.. The larger ones rotated slaves regardless so the paid them less but in return offered better conditions, food, access to family and or women.
but like the lik says they made money just not a living wage, their livelihoods was apart of their work/they did not get paid enough to choose their living situation it was assigned.. and they were allowed to make meger side money by selling things they made grew or as bonouses for high production numbers or rates.
https://www.quora.com/Did-slaves-ever-get-paid
https://www.historyextra.com/period/slave-labour/
http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommat...f/slavery/
here is an egyptian example of slaves getting paid. which coinsides witht he rules of the bible:
http://blogs.nature.com/houseofwisdom/20...laves.html

Educate yourself before you come at me 1/2 cocked.. post a few links to articles or books that support you ideas. don't think what you think you know is real sport. 1/2 of the crap you think you know is revisionist propaganda. it allows you to think you are better than you ancestors or God.. When in fact you are far worse because your whole existence depends on modern slaves and because you refuse to acknowledge it, there are no rules to govern how badly these slaves are treated. (sometimes right here in the USA/Eg there are no labor laws for children and certain crops, there are no mandated breaks there is no minimum wage there is no over time for anyone working in the agricultural industry.) meaning those strawberries you like this time of year or those grapes can be hand picked by a 9 yearold at 4 am till midnight the following day.. (her and everyone else in her family!)
Hour and job restrictions depend upon your age and the job you are doing. The rules are the same for all youth, including migrant workers. Agricultural employment hour restrictions include: ... Youth younger than 12 can work in agriculture on a farm only if the farm is not required to pay the Federal minimum wage.
Youth in Agriculture - Other - OSHA
https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/youth/agriculture/other.html

Yes they do get paid but not a living wage unless everyone works.. but to you that's not a slave,so enjoy those strawberries this year!

You sport are the monster here you are the immoral one even by your own pop culture standards if you simply open your eyes to the truth of how your life is supported and maintained!

What next? You'll be saying that the prison system is just 'The state' keeping people as slaves at it's whim?

red herring.

As I've seen others try and defend the slavery written about in the book (And fail misserably) I suppose you'll feel the need to now choose that hill to die on.

this is not a new subject for me on this web site sport. I have taken every single member here worth noting and not one came out on top. (why do you think no one has jumped on your band wagon??/ isn't that usally the case? a christian defends biblical slavery and that is a call to the wolves to all attack?) have you noticed you a lone wolf here? do you want to know why? because they came at me with the revisionist BS you are leading with and they like you did not know the true history of slavery nor did they understand their dependance on it, which they do now. meaning ANYTHING THEY SAY... is an indictment against their own hypocrisy as being the direct beneficiaries of slave made products. which you yourself are apart of!

Since it would seem that no one can disparage your book of holies.

you can try... but again if you use the same measure against yourself, you wind up inditing your own hypocritical self!

A book which, as you yourself just posted, was written by people who weren't smart enough or developed enough to have or use currency.
But currency was being used by the many empires and cultures around them?

Retard intelligence is not the measure needed here. It is terminology. the question is are the people of the bronze age in a position technologically to use the correct terminology to correctly and scientifically describe what they witnessed? the answer there is no. then the question should be does that lack of sophistication matter? again the answer is no. why? because we have the tools and terminology to make this leap or assessment for them! Besides the very last generation, who would benfit from the correct identification and processes used by God, if indeed they could be scientifically maped? NO ONE!. Meaning up to this point 4000 years of people would not understand anything written about God till he came back.. why would God allow the bible to alienate 4000 years of people to speak to the very last generation? why not have it written simply and open enough to grow with the people as they grow? If you where God would this not be the better way?

Yah, maybe I'm miss speaking and that's not what you're meaning at all.

you are misspeaking because you are not a big picture person. you are a small box thinker. i have demonstrated you only think of how things affect you and how your world is directly affected. You are unable to see how something written 3000ish years ago must tie all generation in the arch of man's time on earth together, under one god. no you can only see the gap, between the understanding the author had and what you able to understand. Never mind the billions in between who were saved by this book and where given over to God as a direct result to how this book was thoughtfully compiled.

Oh! There's something I missed.

indeed. you do miss quite a bit.

"With out slavery we'd still be monkeys in trees."

I am rather hesitant to guess as to what you're trying to allude to with this.

If I had the same propensity to be as wrong as you are and to the degree which you habitually wrong I too would be hesitant to guess anything as well.

Here's the key sport.. If you don't know something ask a question.

I'll go with you trying to infer that all societies as they grown up, developed etc over the many millenia have engaged IN actual slavery so as to build themselves up into the power houses that they were?
Because then you make the claim that with out the things you're then equating back to beig the same as slavery our society would collapse etc.

How about their never was is or will be a society not built and currently maintained on slavery. If you do not think this is true name a proper nation that does not have any roots in slavery.

Meh, just the fact you're apologetic to your holy books stance on slavery is enough for me to walk away from this part of the conversation.
Is good to see more of your thoughts come out, though.

if you walk away from this conversation is will be for the very same reason your peers are not coming to your rescue... You can see the writing on the wall and you know your position is untenable.

From my side of the screen your words are not painting a very appealing picture of your mind.

Not at work.

that's because you hate God in favor of a general consensus of the sin you find acceptable to excuse and live with or better yet the term "morality" sums it up. you hate God infavor of your own subjective pop culture version of 'morality.' rather than acknowledge all sin is bad and seek redemption for the sins you are a slave to.

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You 'it could have happened this way' anything, Drich. Do you have evidence that atheist laymen overrode the critical Biblical scholars? Do you have evidence that ANY of the laymen were atheists? In 1985 if the laymen were picked completely randomly from the general population, you'd expect one or two to be atheists; but the term 'laymen' in this case seems to indicate 'non-clergy members of a church. You've done your homework, so it should be easy for you find out the actual tallies. It would be interesting in any case to learn which passages were agreed to be historical by all 50 scholars and were yet overridden by the laymen. I'd bet it was more likely to be the other way around, the 100 laymen would be more likely to think a passage was historical than the scholars.

Again laymen out numbered the professionals.. and it was a one to one vote meaning the douche bag guy off the street vote counted as much as the scholar.

We already know depending on how the culture is, non vested people always go with pop culture. meaning no one is voting against lgbt rights despite the bible says,no one is going to tell women they do not have a choice because the bible says ABC.. no one is going to tell parents to beat their kids asses because the bible said so unless their whole career is tied up into accurately describing scripture. NOT for a specific denomination but in general practice.

So no it's not a what if sport, it is a tainted well from the start. The layeity out number the professionals 2 to 1 and their votes count the same. the same layeity who sees themselves with no reason to honor the bible as it is written, and everything to loose if they are voting like a 'bigotted races who beats his wife and kid.

So just like I have no proof all vote as an atheist would you have n proof the culture did not influence their vote, as such this point of reference as being a legit source to discern what is and is not scriptural is not nor ever can be seen as real reference material. this at best is commentary stacked in favor of of the culture rather than have any read standing in the exegetical community at large.