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March 7, 2019 at 4:26 pm (This post was last modified: March 7, 2019 at 4:28 pm by tackattack.
Edit Reason: added for clarity
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(March 7, 2019 at 3:32 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: numbering added for clarity
(March 7, 2019 at 3:18 pm)tackattack Wrote: 1. Why would a resurrected and Holy Jesus, want to put on the old flesh that was sacrificed for man's sin? I equate it to deciding to go to the ball in your 10 grade prom cumberbun after retrieving it from the dump after 20 years.
1.-and yet that's what "jesus" allegedly did. He didn't appear in spirit to his disciples as he appeared in spirit to paul on a road, he appeared bodily...holes and all.
Quote:2. He had several ancillary affects after His resurrection like entering closed rooms, disappearing, not needing to rest, ascension, radiating light from eyes. All of which most commonly we could refer to as supernatural.
LOL....you're the resurrection doctor, now, diagnosing symptoms of a nonexistent condition?
Quote:3. I don't consider His post-resurrection body to by non-physical like a ghost.
Good for you. Magic book asserts otherwise.
Quote:4. It describes a different body, this one is just a seed that will grow into a better (imperishable, powerful, glorified, spiritual, Holy made from heaven). First was the natural, then the spirit was added. When this natural body perishes the spirit continues and one day will be reunited with a new body. I believe that summarizes the majority belief in resurrection bodies. I apologize for the length, I've hidden for brevity.
"It" does no such thing. "It" explicitly appeals to a natural understanding of growth and bodies by means of seeds and planting. Mind, I'm not commenting on the validity of the belief (though obviously I could). Only noting that your beliefs, of your many beliefs, are a heretical extrapolation.
The thing to keep in mind, amusingly enough (in that you can't)..is that while we moderns seem to see a difference between the "natural" and "supernatural" - there was no such distinction for people 2k years ago...nor can any such distinction be argued for, today, if we accept the supernatural claims of old and new magic book. Your retconning of "jesus" into a ghost is a demonstration of the efficacy of metaphysical naturalism. The notion was, itself, rejected out of hand as heresy centuries ago. The idea being that if christ was not bodily incarnated and bodily resurrected, the central premises of the christian faith are false. Or, as "Paul" puts it....directly preceding your quoted source....
Quote: But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30 And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31 I face death every day—yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32 If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus with no more than human hopes, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
“Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die.”[d]
33 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”[e] 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.
TLDR version... "No zombies, no christ". :Looks Around: Aint no fuckin zombies Tack..................... the author of christianity, himself, provides the singlemost incontrovertible disproval of christian belief.
I think you're mis-characterizing my stance Gae:
1. You're conflating definitions on spiritual which I was patently trying to avoid. His resurrection body wasn't exclusively ethereal (Paul n the road in Acts 9), but could be physical as attested to by someone putting fingers in wounds and grabbing a bite with them (Acts 10).
Simplest Meme to make out of it is the stay puff in Ghostbusters, Able to chose the form in which it appears. I'm sure somone will make the meme. Holey for the doubters and ephemeral for the faithful.
2. Not prescribing just describing, since an opinion was asked, and given. I have no authority over Christian belief as a whole, just my interpretation of scripture.
3. See one, post resurrection he disappeared when he wanted and could take different forms and have physicality. The point being a distinct difference from the natural body He prior held.
4. I do believe in a bodily resurrection, of Christ and us. I believe Christ was first and some of the rest of us will come later. I do not know what the characteristics of a heavenly body will consist of. The Bible does describe attributes to us that we colloquially refer to today as supernatural, spiritual or ghost like.
Overarchingly, I'm not sure what the characteristic are of a heavenly body versus a natural body. I know what a natural body's limitation are as I'm living in one. Maybe it will be more genetic information ala 5th element, mutant powers, different senses, shapeshifting, idk. I de believe we will be reunited with the molecules of or original body, and then transformed, then ascended. There's nothing heretical about any of that.
Your added section wasn't to the points, but feel free to rant away, I don't think that's anything other than a rant.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari