Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 21, 2025, 9:27 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Evolution and Christianity and Salvation
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation
That's actually a pretty good example, because while it's demonstrably the case that a rise in tobacco taxes correlates with a decrease in smoking, it's also the case that public confidence and comfort in the taxes hinge on how that revenue is employed.   Which, for reference, is poorly.  Those taxes produce millions but very little goes to smoking cessation or prevention, or to a fund for treatment.  It mostly goes to the general budget of whatever state levies it.  Now, this isn't always bad, swedens carbon axes aren't earmarked either...but whereas people in the one example have confidence that their government is using that revenue well, we realize that ours mostly goes to balancing state budgets in light of their laundry lists of garbage costs.

With the above in mind, it's easy to then see how a tobacco farmer might find such taxes even more onerous.  Not only is that revenue poorly employed from the standpoint of cessation, it's poorly employed from the standpoint of industry transition.  Burley producing areas have been left destitute, and we can moralize all we want about how the people growing tobacco can't really complain when the country stops doing some shitty thing that their incomes depend on...but we have to remember that they have mortgages as well.  There was a great opportunity to earmark some of those tobacco taxes to help producers, and there have been limited cases of it being done, but they;re just that..limited.  As it so happens, those regions could have been making more producing other crops all along, and we've recently figured that out and there's a big push to make that happen....but that push comes too late for those put out of business, whose farms became real estate and that real estate became a gated community or suburb and is now locked under concrete.  

So, tobacco taxes, poorly implemented from many standpoints and not at all implemented with public confidence (or even by a government that the public has confidence in), and yet they still worked.  The thing they had going for them, that got them through the barriers that other reduction through taxation schemes fail on account of, was that it was a sin tax. Understanding these successes and failures is instrumental to any future attempt at taxes like them, carbon taxes being part of the set. Tobacco taxes could have been even more aggressive and it would stand to reason that the correlative reductions would have been more aggressive as well. The money could have been better spent to further maximize the anti-smoking campaign, and it could have been better spent to help tobacco producing regions transition to something even more profitable. Many interested parties could have been more thoroughly and meaningfully included and the outcome, as decent as it is on it's own merits, could have been improved. In light of that, while swedens carbon taxes provide real world demonstration that the fossil fuel industry's propaganda is just that, propaganda....it's also true that their example isn't the final word on the subject. That model can be taken as a lesson and then improved on. Similarly, the failures of our ultimately successful tobacco taxes ought to be taken into account as well so that we don't fail so many americans even as we do the right thing.

That taxes can cause hardship and that tax revenue can be misallocated is a legitimate concern, but it's not a reason not to levy the tax, it's an argument for levying it well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 3, 2019 at 3:51 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 4:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 3, 2019 at 5:30 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 5:37 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 3, 2019 at 6:22 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 5:49 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 3, 2019 at 5:39 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by LastPoet - February 4, 2019 at 12:17 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 6:18 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 6:19 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 9:00 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Nay_Sayer - February 3, 2019 at 11:27 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 3, 2019 at 7:05 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 9:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 3, 2019 at 10:02 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 3, 2019 at 11:21 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 6, 2019 at 7:54 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 8:15 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by snowtracks - February 4, 2019 at 1:07 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by brewer - February 4, 2019 at 10:26 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by mrj - February 6, 2019 at 8:24 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 4, 2019 at 11:43 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 5, 2019 at 12:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 6, 2019 at 11:30 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 6, 2019 at 1:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 7, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 8:56 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 9:10 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Pat Mustard - February 6, 2019 at 11:10 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by LastPoet - February 6, 2019 at 1:21 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Brian37 - February 6, 2019 at 2:09 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Yonadav - February 6, 2019 at 2:49 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 12, 2019 at 12:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 10:35 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 13, 2019 at 11:34 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 13, 2019 at 12:38 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 13, 2019 at 12:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 13, 2019 at 1:09 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 14, 2019 at 12:18 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 20, 2019 at 10:46 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Abaddon_ire - February 20, 2019 at 11:45 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 20, 2019 at 9:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 21, 2019 at 12:50 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 22, 2019 at 7:22 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 22, 2019 at 9:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 22, 2019 at 1:12 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Deesse23 - February 22, 2019 at 1:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 1:50 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 26, 2019 at 10:01 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 27, 2019 at 10:43 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 27, 2019 at 11:47 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 28, 2019 at 10:07 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 28, 2019 at 10:29 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - February 28, 2019 at 4:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 10:55 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 1, 2019 at 12:39 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 20, 2019 at 11:06 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 20, 2019 at 1:54 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 20, 2019 at 2:46 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 21, 2019 at 2:33 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 21, 2019 at 4:53 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 10:50 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 25, 2019 at 11:57 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:41 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 25, 2019 at 5:41 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 26, 2019 at 10:37 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 26, 2019 at 5:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 27, 2019 at 1:48 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 27, 2019 at 6:23 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 26, 2019 at 3:30 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by pocaracas - February 21, 2019 at 1:04 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by 900ft j - February 25, 2019 at 2:29 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 25, 2019 at 3:59 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 26, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 26, 2019 at 6:01 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 10:31 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Peebo-Thuhlu - February 28, 2019 at 11:40 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by fredd bear - February 27, 2019 at 7:15 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:14 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - February 28, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Angrboda - February 28, 2019 at 7:06 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:28 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 12:58 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 2:58 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 1:28 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 5:01 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 5:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 2:14 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 1, 2019 at 4:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:05 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 4, 2019 at 12:13 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 3:35 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 5, 2019 at 5:37 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 1:24 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 10:22 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 6, 2019 at 10:52 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 7, 2019 at 4:13 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 7, 2019 at 10:27 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 7, 2019 at 5:23 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 10:44 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:23 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 11:13 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 8, 2019 at 10:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:01 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 8, 2019 at 11:32 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:58 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 12:45 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 9, 2019 at 11:05 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 10, 2019 at 9:00 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 10, 2019 at 11:42 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 11:50 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 3:06 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 8, 2019 at 3:52 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 9, 2019 at 11:16 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 9, 2019 at 11:52 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 11, 2019 at 1:11 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 11, 2019 at 8:03 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 11, 2019 at 9:08 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 9:48 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 11:27 am
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Drich - March 13, 2019 at 4:18 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 11, 2019 at 9:38 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 11, 2019 at 11:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Jehanne - March 12, 2019 at 10:19 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by The Grand Nudger - March 13, 2019 at 12:36 pm
RE: Evolution and Christianity and Salvation - by Amarok - March 14, 2019 at 3:10 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  On the subject of Hell and Salvation Alternatehistory95 278 47567 March 10, 2019 at 12:09 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Lie Known as "Salvation" Haipule 59 12292 June 12, 2018 at 3:35 am
Last Post: Haipule
  There is a difference between salvation, and the rewards of Heaven Drich 45 16997 July 31, 2017 at 9:27 am
Last Post: Drich
  Can a Chrisitan lose his/her salvation? Jehanne 130 39310 July 26, 2017 at 10:25 am
Last Post: drfuzzy
  It's Always Sunny - evolution versus Christianity LadyForCamus 201 62971 February 27, 2016 at 1:19 pm
Last Post: Nihilist Virus
  Orthodox Christianity is Best Christianity! Annoyingbutnicetheist 30 9225 January 26, 2016 at 10:44 pm
Last Post: ignoramus
  Are Evolution and Christianity Completely Incompatible? SamS 93 25221 July 15, 2015 at 11:15 pm
Last Post: Pyrrho
  Snake Salvation Spooky 39 11661 January 25, 2015 at 9:32 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  'Snake Salvation' Pastor Dies Hilariously Ironic Death Ryantology 64 20640 February 25, 2014 at 10:01 am
Last Post: truthBtold
  Christianity vs Gnostic Christianity themonkeyman 12 9634 December 26, 2013 at 11:00 am
Last Post: pineapplebunnybounce



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)