(March 27, 2019 at 6:38 pm)pocaracas Wrote: And how do you suppose you come to hold a belief?
What is the mental mechanism that leads to a particular belief?
How biological creatures like ourselves form beliefs, and our perceptions of reality, is quite messy if anything, and not really the product of surgical precision. “The world of the happy man is a different one from that of the unhappy man”.
If you grew up with terrible parents, an absent father, it’s going affect your perception of reality itself, just as if one was raised by loving and kind parents. Just as it would be for a man in a happy and committed marriage, and a man whose been divorced multiple times.
Also many of things we believe are not the result of any real rational deduction on our part, but a result of seeing, of having something shown to us, that we might struggle to adequately articulate or express, but believe as result of seeing, more so than hearing.
Quote:Why is it important to you to be part of a created order? What if there's no order?
Why is it important to you to have a life with a narrative arc? Time does flow forward, and that's enough. The end comes to us all, each at our time.
Why is it important to you to have a moral order, and recognize right from wrong? Perhaps because you live in a society and such a trait has been bred into you by "evolution”?
I don’t see my beliefs in these things as result of ascribing importance to them. Anymore so than I believe I have two hands because I think it’s important to believe I do. It’s how I see the world, it’s the way the world appears to me. The arguments otherwise seems quite unconvincing. It’s hard for me to see those who try and make the counter argument as being honest with themselves. They seem to reject these things more so because they don’t want to believe it, rather than because it’s not true.
Life appears to point to something. Our desire for truth, meaning, goodness, a sense of the sacred, the basis of which we created religions in the first place, because man is under the impression that there’s something behind the curtain. Now perhaps this is mirage, yet we seem to posses an innate desire to chase it, as if it’s there.
Quote:Some will not see life as something beautiful, nor excessive.... some will find it very simple and lacking in any depth... You are lucky to have all that, due to the society in which you have been born.
Life’s excessive, no matter how one looks at it. We occupy a life briming with near endless diversity, a product of an endless stream of potentials, that resulted in the very existence of conscious life, life is both brutal and beautiful, and deep beyond all measure and understanding. If you can’t see it, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, it’s that you’ve been deprived.
Quote:Truth and goodness are, again, societal traits. Only meaningful when the individual practicing them in embedded in a society. Again, they are evolved traits that most of us share, although most of us are also capable of bending these... hinting at them being relatively recent in the evolutionary chain.
They could all be evolved traits, but in order for trait to be evolved, there has to have been the potential for such traits to have evolved. Consciousness is not going to ever arise from legos, because legos lack the potential to produce consciousness, no matter what combinations are formed. Secondly goodness and truth, aren’t reducible to evolved traits, just the recognition of them. We couldn’t evolve to recognize truth, unless truth exists in the first place, as part of reality. And the same with goodness. We perceived goodness as we do truth, only because goodness exist in reality itself. When we see the wrongness of the holocaust, we recognizing an objective truth about reality, just as when we recognize a round ball, or a yellow dress.