RE: Do you wish there's a god?
March 29, 2019 at 8:17 am
(This post was last modified: March 29, 2019 at 8:53 am by Acrobat.)
(March 29, 2019 at 7:35 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Claiming something and acknowledging something are two very different things. You can claim basically anything you want, no matter how ridiculous. The accepted meaning of acknowledging is that the thing acknowledged is a fact or readily apparent truth. That the holocaust was immoral is a claim. You can acknowledge that you believe the holocaust is immoral is an objective fact. You cannot acknowledge that the holocaust was objectively immoral as it isn't sufficiently well evidenced to be considered a fact or a readily apparent truth. So, your counter-argument amounts to saying little more than, "nuh uh." It's an ipse dixit argument and is thus essentially worthless for establishing your point.
Torturing innocent babies for fun is wrong, this is a readily apparent truth, just like the chair in my room is as readily apparent truth. When I says it's wrong, it's akin to saying the sheets on my bed are red. Now if for some reason i though I was seeing things, I can go around asking others do they see the wrongness here as well, just like I might ask them if they see the redness of my sheets, to confirm I'm not color blind. And low and behold nearly everyone can confirm the same observation. If I asked you, do you acknowledge, recognize that torturing innocent babies just for fun is wrong, I'd expect you to confirm, unless you were delusional or being dishonest.
Quote:This is complete bullshit. We have every reason in the world to be skeptical of the validity of anything that isn't a direct sense perception, and even then, the acceptance is not absolute. You're simply making more meaningless ipse dixit arguments.
The recognition of the wrongness of torturing innocent babies just for fun, is a direct sense perception. You'd have to be delusional not to recognize it. Now perhaps in your world you live with some sort of nagging doubts about everything you directly observe, "am i really holding the cup I'm holding", "is my mother really at the dinner table, maybe she's been replaced by an alien replica", etc.. I on the other hand trust my perceptions, unless there's some compelling basis not to. I have no reason to think my mother has been replaced by an alien replica, so I don't harbor any doubts about her being real.
In fact the only reason I can think of deny my moral perceptions, is by presupposing that atheism is true. Yet atheists also seem confused on whether morality is objective or subjective, it's not even evident to me that most atheists fall into the subjectivist camp. And I'd argue the reason why so many are not inclined to be subjectivist, is because they have a hard time denying the moral reality we all perceive, as no less real than you or I.