(November 23, 2019 at 7:26 pm)Tom Fearnley Wrote:(November 23, 2019 at 7:10 pm)notimportant1234 Wrote: I think you would lose an argument because of this statement, you are claiming that knowledge and thoughts can be achieved only by our means of perception.
Why is this wrong? It is not, but you can t prove that this is the only way to achieve knowledge or thoughts and the burden of proof falls on you.
The only point atheist have (which is not actually a point) is that we Don t know that a deity exists so we are not obligated to act upon a deity based system.
But there is no evidence where there should be of thoughts coming from anywhere other than the brain/neurons.
(November 23, 2019 at 7:23 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Many Christians would say that the "fall of man" is why we feel pain and experience death and such.
Yes but that would make their God very unpowerful. He couldn't even stop us from feeling pain. Thanks for the response how do you counter it?
In the Bayesian sense, I don't exactly disagree with you.
I think the issue, though, is we're talking metaphysics and consciousness and such. Stuff way beyond what we've evolved to think about in our everyday lives. And I don't think we can be almost certain that thoughts could only come from brain/neurons.
As for pain and death and such, God might have intentionally allowed the Fall to happen for the sake of some greater unknown good. That's one counter.