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Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me...
(May 30, 2020 at 9:16 pm)Belacqua Wrote:
(May 30, 2020 at 8:33 pm)polymath257 Wrote: If a frog is singing, that is part of what it 'is or does' and therefore part of its nature, right?

If science told us in great detail and with great confidence that a frog can't sing Italian duets [i.e., that such singing is not a part of the frog's nature], and yet we saw it do so, then people who are open to the possibility of the supernatural would take this as evidence of the supernatural.

Science would not make such a proclamation. It *never* dictates what is the 'nature' of something (except, potentially, in definitions--always subject to further investigation).

If we actually *see* frogs singing duets, then that is raw information and 'science' would say it is possible for frogs to sing duets, but we don't know how. That would be an opportunity for investigation. But, the observation of singing by a frog would *show* that singing is in that frog's nature.

Quote:People who are not open to the possibility of the supernatural would assume that science hadn't discovered something yet. That in fact it was part of the frog's nature. Even if a million years went by and no explanation was offered, people who are not open to the possibility of the supernatural would continue to assume this. 

For clarity: I am not saying that it's possible.

And, once again, BY YOUR DEFINITION, the 'nature' of something is what it is and does. So, if a frog sings duets, it is in it nature to sing duets because that is what it is *doing*.

The *start* of science is observation. So, if a frog is observed to sing duets, then that is what science *starts* with. You seem to think it starts with some sort of materialist assumption, BUT THAT IS WRONG. It starts with observation. THEN, it makes hypotheses about what is observed. It makes sure those hypotheses are testable, and then it ACTUALLY TESTS them. It will try to default to using previously tested ideas to formulate the hypotheses, but at ALL stages, the observation is the focus.

So, in your little scenario, the scientists would NOT say it is impossible for a frog to sing. They would observe it singing and start with that information, proceeding to try to figure out how it is possible.
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RE: Atheist VS Naturalist - the latter sounds more appealing to me... - by polymath257 - May 31, 2020 at 10:19 am

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