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God Exists
RE: God Exists
(June 1, 2020 at 9:18 pm)brewer Wrote: All of those are simply a list of man made concepts that have been attributed to another man made concept. Concepts you didn't even think of, you're just repeating what you've been taught (programmed, brain washed?).

Why do you need this product of the mind to exist so badly?

Wait one moment. There's not a single concept in your brain that wasn't borrowed from another person? I don't know if that's impressive or unimpressive.

I never claimed merely defining "God" means He exists, but you and your pals need to get your definitions straight in order to argue against the concept of God. Otherwise, all you're doing is strawmanning.

And I'd argue that you're the one who is emotionally invested in the idea of there not being a God.

(June 1, 2020 at 11:59 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: You made claims. Those are what need to be defended. Atheism is merely not believing any God or gods are actually real.

If you're a rational person with a normally functioning brain, then you must have good reasons for not believing in God. Otherwise, it's just some emotional preference that doesn't warrant a discussion. For example, you may believe there's no God because there's no scientific evidence for His existence. If these kinds of reasons can be attacked and successfully destroyed, then that leaves a person with no good reason to not believe in God.

Quote:Some form of physical reality having always existed is not, though.

It is if that physical reality goes through changes and processes.

Quote:If existence (rather than just this iteration of a cosmos) has a beginning, and time began at that same beginning (as seems to be the case for our cosmos), then physical reality always existed, since time has no meaning 'before' the beginning of time unless there's a larger cosmos with its own time that this one sprang from.

This is very convoluted and loaded with hidden premises. Reality is a complete set of all that exists. This would include all physical things, as well as everything else (if there exists things that are not of matter and energy).

Also, how you've described things appears to be logically incoherent. First you say matter and energy didn't always exist. Then you say because matter and energy didn't always exist that therefore it has always existed.

Perhaps it would help you if you thought of reality as a set which includes all matter and energy. Now ask yourself if this set has ever been emptied of matter and energy. And if you're a materialist then I suppose you could yourself if the set has ever been empty. Try not to get too hung up on the language of this question.

Quote:This cosmos is past-finite, yet it has also existed since time began.

Yes, but did it exist timelessly? If it only existed in time (because time is interwoven in matter and energy), then it follows that there was a state of affairs where matter and energy and time did not exist.

Quote:God doesn't have to change for an infinite past to be a problem. Merely existing brings in all the same objections. How long did God wait in the infinite past before creating the universe?

He didn't "wait" at all, being in a timeless state. This makes sense because causally prior to His creation of matter and energy there was no time. It was only after His creation that He entered into a time relationship.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 11:40 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 30, 2020 at 11:46 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 11:53 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 12:06 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:16 am
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 12:20 am
RE: God Exists - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2020 at 12:24 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 12:51 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:56 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:00 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 1:01 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 6:09 am
RE: God Exists - by downbeatplumb - May 31, 2020 at 3:02 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 3:11 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 3:46 pm
RE: God Exists - by purplepurpose - May 31, 2020 at 3:49 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 3:54 pm
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 30, 2020 at 11:49 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 11:54 pm
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 30, 2020 at 11:54 pm
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 30, 2020 at 11:56 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 11:59 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Valkyrie - May 30, 2020 at 11:57 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 11:57 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Valkyrie - May 31, 2020 at 12:00 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 12:03 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:10 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 12:22 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:49 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 12:59 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:12 am
RE: God Exists - by Fake Messiah - May 31, 2020 at 1:17 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 1:19 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:22 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 2:00 am
RE: God Exists - by sdelsolray - June 3, 2020 at 10:38 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:05 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 30, 2020 at 11:59 pm
RE: God Exists - by Anomalocaris - May 31, 2020 at 12:02 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 12:04 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 12:09 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 12:11 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:12 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 12:25 am
RE: God Exists - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 31, 2020 at 6:03 am
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 12:16 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 12:17 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:18 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 12:19 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:20 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 12:21 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:23 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 12:28 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 12:30 am
RE: God Exists - by Fake Messiah - May 31, 2020 at 12:34 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:57 am
RE: God Exists - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 12:54 am
RE: God Exists - by arewethereyet - May 31, 2020 at 2:05 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:19 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 2:22 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:32 am
RE: God Exists - by arewethereyet - May 31, 2020 at 2:33 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 2:37 am
RE: God Exists - by arewethereyet - May 31, 2020 at 2:24 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:30 am
RE: God Exists - by Fake Messiah - May 31, 2020 at 3:07 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 4:10 am
RE: God Exists - by Gwaithmir - May 31, 2020 at 4:45 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 6:27 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 7:03 am
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 7:26 am
RE: God Exists - by Fake Messiah - May 31, 2020 at 8:38 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:00 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 12:10 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:21 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 12:43 pm
RE: God Exists - by Grandizer - May 31, 2020 at 12:59 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:02 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:03 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:08 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:11 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:13 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:17 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:33 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:39 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:40 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:56 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 3:04 pm
RE: God Exists - by onlinebiker - May 31, 2020 at 3:55 pm
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 4:07 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 6:46 pm
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 8:56 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 9:08 pm
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 9:20 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 9:34 pm
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 10:13 pm
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 3:59 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 4:03 pm
RE: God Exists - by Grandizer - May 31, 2020 at 1:12 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:13 pm
RE: God Exists - by Gwaithmir - June 1, 2020 at 6:27 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 3:35 pm
RE: God Exists - by Belacqua - May 31, 2020 at 2:32 am
RE: God Exists - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2020 at 1:27 pm
RE: God Exists - by Mister Agenda - June 1, 2020 at 11:59 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 2:21 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 2:27 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 2:33 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:54 am
RE: God Exists - by purplepurpose - May 31, 2020 at 2:43 am
RE: God Exists - by Grandizer - May 31, 2020 at 4:05 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 4:47 am
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 4:11 am
RE: God Exists - by zebo-the-fat - May 31, 2020 at 4:39 am
RE: God Exists - by Deesse23 - May 31, 2020 at 5:56 am
RE: God Exists - by Mr.wizard - May 31, 2020 at 6:32 am
RE: God Exists - by brewer - May 31, 2020 at 8:46 am
RE: God Exists - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2020 at 12:14 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 12:29 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 12:59 pm
RE: God Exists - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2020 at 7:26 pm
RE: God Exists - by Mr.wizard - May 31, 2020 at 1:18 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:31 pm
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - May 31, 2020 at 1:21 pm
RE: God Exists - by onlinebiker - May 31, 2020 at 1:30 pm
RE: God Exists - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 8:08 pm
RE: God Exists - by arewethereyet - May 31, 2020 at 8:23 pm
RE: God Exists - by Smaug - May 31, 2020 at 8:27 pm
RE: God Exits - by Paleophyte - May 31, 2020 at 8:32 pm
RE: God Exits - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 8:36 pm
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 1, 2020 at 5:58 am
RE: God Exists - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 7:22 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 8:24 pm
RE: God Exists - by brewer - June 1, 2020 at 9:18 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 9:28 pm
RE: God Exists - by brewer - June 1, 2020 at 11:03 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 1, 2020 at 11:10 pm
RE: God Exists - by brewer - June 1, 2020 at 11:15 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 11:13 pm
RE: God Exists - by LostLocke - June 1, 2020 at 11:30 pm
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 1, 2020 at 11:35 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 1, 2020 at 11:38 pm
RE: God Exists - by brewer - June 2, 2020 at 12:03 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 12:08 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 12:16 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 2, 2020 at 12:30 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 12:39 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 2, 2020 at 8:38 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 8:41 am
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 2, 2020 at 8:45 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 8:47 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 1:35 am
RE: God Exists - by downbeatplumb - June 2, 2020 at 2:52 am
RE: God Exists - by Deesse23 - June 2, 2020 at 12:55 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 1:02 am
RE: God Exists - by Deesse23 - June 2, 2020 at 3:13 am
RE: God Exists - by Mister Agenda - June 2, 2020 at 11:16 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 4:17 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 6:51 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 7:43 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 7:46 am
RE: God Exists - by Mister Agenda - June 2, 2020 at 12:32 pm
RE: God Exists - by Mister Agenda - June 2, 2020 at 12:16 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 1, 2020 at 7:10 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - June 1, 2020 at 10:23 am
RE: God Exists - by Pat Mustard - June 1, 2020 at 11:31 am
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 1, 2020 at 4:09 pm
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 1, 2020 at 10:28 pm
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 10:40 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 2:05 am
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - June 2, 2020 at 2:42 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 2:57 am
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - June 2, 2020 at 3:06 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 4:16 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 4:25 am
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 2, 2020 at 7:43 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 7:50 am
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 2, 2020 at 7:54 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 7:59 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 8:06 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 8:23 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 8:50 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 8:53 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 9:06 am
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 2, 2020 at 9:14 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 9:20 am
RE: God Exists - by possibletarian - June 2, 2020 at 9:34 am
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 9:36 am
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 2:55 pm
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 2, 2020 at 9:04 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 9:36 am
RE: God Exists - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 9:39 am
RE: God Exists - by Sal - June 2, 2020 at 9:53 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 9:58 am
RE: God Exists - by onlinebiker - June 2, 2020 at 10:15 am
RE: God Exists - by zebo-the-fat - June 2, 2020 at 12:22 pm
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 2, 2020 at 12:59 pm
RE: God Exists - by Belacqua - June 2, 2020 at 4:02 pm
RE: God Exists - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 4:05 pm
RE: God Exists - by Peebo-Thuhlu - June 3, 2020 at 12:31 am
RE: God Exists - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 1:09 pm
RE: God Exists - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 10:04 pm
RE: God Exists - by brewer - June 2, 2020 at 10:27 pm
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 2, 2020 at 11:44 pm
RE: God Exists - by Rahn127 - June 3, 2020 at 12:18 pm
RE: God Exists - by Ranjr - June 3, 2020 at 11:32 pm
RE: God Exists - by Succubus#2 - June 4, 2020 at 12:07 am
RE: God Exists - by lestersoto - June 15, 2020 at 3:07 pm
RE: God Exists - by Pat Mustard - June 16, 2020 at 8:49 am
RE: God Exists - by Gawdzilla Sama - June 16, 2020 at 1:19 pm

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