Is there free will in heaven?

[lucent]

The law is not proof that someone deserves punishing. It is proof that the moral majority believe it deserves punishing.

If there were no law there would be no basis for punishment. The law is there to set a standard of behavior, and if you don't live up to that standard, you suffer the consequence. It is indeed proof.

Indeed. I would go on to add that the circumstances should have something to do with it as well. This is part of the reason we have courts -- not a single judge, jury and executioner.

It's all arbitrary, ultimately. There is always a final authority to every system.

We are not talking about moral justifications. We are talking about freewill. Justification or not, he will be punished, as would I have been, had I been caught. That being said, I do believe most murder is inherently wrong. Either way, I am free to do it, if I so choose. Repercussions come after the fact.

Of course you're free to do it. We're talking about whether you deserve to be punished for it. The law says you do.

Um, you are equating laws with morals and legal behavior with moral behavior. Your inability to follow a conversation is absurd. You brought law into it. It shouldn't be that hard for you to keep up.

Your standard for moral behavior is that you can break laws you disagree with, and that you would break more laws if you felt you could get away with it. That's called anarchy (ie, absurd). It doesn't change the fact that you deserve to be punished for breaking those laws.

Oh, really? A murderer being punished for murdering someone is a little different than me burning in hell for all of eternity for lust or some other such stupid bullshit.

It's no different in our example. You know what the law is and you break it anyway, and your disagreement with it doesn't excuse you from the consequences.

Besides, I do not disagree with god's laws so much as I disagree with the laws your holy goatherders made up and called god's laws. Lucky for me, the bible also says a little something about judging people. See you in hell, bitch.

The bible does not say not to judge, it says not to judge hypocritically. I won't be there and I hope you won't either.

Misinterpret much? I. AM. AN. ATHEIST. There is no god to give me what I want. I get it. I work for it. I know what I want. If god knew better than me and loved me to death the way you thumpers think he does, a whole lot of shit would turn out awesome for me, despite me never knowing I needed it. That has yet to happen.

The world is a little bigger than what you put into and take out of your wallet to buy your way through life. There is a whole lot of work involved in making your life happen, things you know nothing about. He isn't trying to make your secular life "turn out awesome. You'd just go through life believing it was all due to something you did and get puffed up with even more pride. He is trying to get you to realize that you're not in control, and that until you come to Him, your life is out of control.

Superior knowledge about myself? Yes. Just because something is omnipotent, doesn't mean it gives a shit about my day to day life. Try not to be so ridiculous. The omnipotent being is your imagination. You want to think you are right for one of two reasons. 1. To know you haven't wasted all of this time abiding by laws that do not exist. 2. So you can feel superior to people who do not believe as you do and tell them they are going to be punished. It is interesting that, while most atheists find your viewpoint insulting, they do not make up eternities of torment to amuse themselves with. Sadistic much?

You can't even admit it even in a hypothetical. That's what we call denial. It is plainly obvious an omnipotent being would know better about what you need than you do. You're only aware of a small sphere of things happening around you, but God knows all of it, and will guide you through it.

Really? I could use a heart that functions properly. Looks like god doesn't care.

How would you know?

A. I am not a little kid. B. Kids do know things. Do you really treat all children like they don't know anything?

Compared to God you're a little kid, and yes kids do know things; more so than some adults. What I am talking about is wisdom, and for that you need experience (and God).

What? I do not believe my life is a series of accidents, you blankety blank. I see everything as the result of my activity, inactivity or a little thing called inevitability. If there were a god to fucking blame, I would be doing it. Trust me. I would shit on every Bible I ever saw if I believed in god. I would desecrate churches and swear at nuns. I am not joking.

Right, it's all about you. That's the delusion of atheism. Well, in a way you're right. The failings we have in this life are due to the stupid mistakes we make trying to do things are own way, thinking we can hash it out by ourselves. That's the way the world trains us to be. It's all vainglorious, it's all futility. We don't do anything for ourselves, that is the illusion. What we do is live every day on mercy and grace, owing each and every breath to forces beyond our control.

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God has nothing to be forgiven for. He is sovereign over His creation. 150k people die every day, and God allowed all of those deaths to happen. Whether He judged a city for its wickedness, or whether He took someone out of the world when they're 80, no one dies before their time. In every case, He decides the time. There is no difference between what you say is unforgivable and what happens every day.

Fuck you.

Pardon?