RE: Is there free will in heaven?
October 27, 2011 at 12:24 am
(This post was last modified: October 27, 2011 at 12:25 am by lucent.)
(October 26, 2011 at 11:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Well, what happens everyday is the result of our environment (natural disasters) our society (crime, war etc) and our biology (death and disease). That's what happens everyday in the real world. I can't hold a grudge against a tornado because it isn't a thinking being can I?
A thinking being flooding the earth in xenocidal rage is in no way equivalent to this. Cursing babies with boils and eventual death for the indiscretions of their parents is in no way equivalent to this. Turning women into pillars of salt is in no way equivalent to this. I could go on and on and on.
Maybe you don't feel that you have a right to question tyranny or despotism, and there are people out there that would love to have you join their cause if you feel that way, but I do question these things. Don't make me Godwin this thread. Claiming that "god has nothing to be forgiven for because he is sovereign" is the tired old might makes right bullshit, and I'd love to see you apply that to an earthly dictator. Ironically I agree with you, in part. God doesn't have anything to be forgiven for, because your god doesn't exist. It's his followers that get to shoulder the atrocities that actually did happen in his name. Not some bullshit flood etc. That you waive away imagined acts of depravity as A-OK (while believing that they did occur) doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the notion that his followers aren't willing to repeat the nasty shit they've already done.
It doesn't bother me for a few reasons. One, I know how wicked people are even when we have the pretense of civility. If you read history you find out pretty quickly that cultures were totally and completely brutal in those times. Cultures were annihilating other cultures at the drop of a hat. I don't blame God for dealing harshly with such brutal and wicked people, who had sex with their own childeen and sacrificed them to demons. Better that they were wiped off the map.
Two, because God is sovereign. He has the power of life and death, and He uses it all the time. about 150k times a day on each side of the coin. It's part of what He does to keep this thing going.
Three, because humans are still evil, and the reason there are starving children, as shell pointed out, is because of mans inequity. Atheists want to blame all of the worlds problems on God, but He created this thing perfect. We messed it up, and we keep messing it up. All God is doing is working to do undo the damage that we do every day. He isn't out to get us, He is out to save us. The blame for the evil in the world is at the feet of man, and the good things are from God. You get the two things confused.
