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Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice?
#44
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice?
(July 31, 2020 at 4:11 pm)Drich Wrote:
(July 30, 2020 at 7:17 am)Dundee Wrote: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice?

What do you think?

I ask this question because there are some Christian  sects that do not allow their members  to drink wine - or any alcohol.
there are two words in the koine greek. where ever the phrase 'fruit of the vine' or 'new wine' is used it means 'grape juice.' (new wine grape juice exposed to yeast) and where the bible says wine it means alcoholic wine.

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So, I decided to try and test that claim. Looking through Strong's Concordance, I found exactly three Greek nouns translated as "wine" that appear in the New Testament.
  • Oinos, which means wine. It is used 34 times. Pretty straightforward.
  • Oxos, which means vinegar, but is actually commonly believed to be an imperfect Greek translation of a drink called Posca, (this is actually a common mistranslation used by Plutarch as well as the Gospel writers because Greek lacked a word for the drink) which is basically a mix of vinegar, water, and maybe some herbs. Used six times.
  • Gleukos, which is translated as "new wine." This appears exactly once, and in a context that severely undermines Drich's exegesis. It happens in Acts 2:13, a reaction to the apostles speaking in all the different languagaes of the world, and while some looked on in amazement and perplexity, (and I'm using the Amplified Bible for this) " But others were laughing and joking and ridiculing them, saying, “They are full of sweet wine and are drunk!” Many translations don't add "and are drunk," but the context remains clear: they think the Apostles are drunk when they speak all these foreign languages.
And then you mentioned "fruit of the vine." I found nine verses in the New Testament that used both those words, and in only three of them does it seem to refer to a drink: Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25, and Luke 22:18, each time said by Jesus during the Last Supper after the disciples had all "drunk his blood," saying that he would not drink the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God came and he drank it with the disciples again. And since it's pretty explicitly described in each account as a feast for the first day of passover (read: the Seder), and one of the rituals of the Seder involves drinking four cups' worth of wine (which most branches of Judaism TO THIS DAY explicitly state must be alcoholic except when the drinker is either a child [who has yet to go through the Bar Mitzvah] or if the drinker will get sick if served alcohol), plus the fact that non-alcoholic grape juice was only made a viable drink 151 years ago, the likelihood that "fruit of the vine" referred to something non-alcoholic in the time of Christ becomes vanishingly rare.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

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I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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Messages In This Thread
Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - July 30, 2020 at 7:17 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Silver - July 30, 2020 at 7:19 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Gwaithmir - July 30, 2020 at 7:23 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - July 30, 2020 at 7:24 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by brewer - July 30, 2020 at 8:01 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Silver - July 30, 2020 at 8:02 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by brewer - July 30, 2020 at 8:37 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by chimp3 - July 30, 2020 at 8:09 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Brian37 - July 30, 2020 at 5:05 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - July 30, 2020 at 5:45 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - July 30, 2020 at 7:16 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by AniKoferBo - August 1, 2020 at 8:20 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by no one - July 30, 2020 at 7:47 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Gnomey - July 30, 2020 at 11:53 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by ignoramus - July 31, 2020 at 12:37 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Ranjr - July 31, 2020 at 12:21 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Brian37 - July 31, 2020 at 11:36 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Brian37 - July 31, 2020 at 11:56 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Drich - July 31, 2020 at 4:11 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - July 31, 2020 at 6:39 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Drich - August 3, 2020 at 11:12 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - August 3, 2020 at 11:54 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Drich - August 4, 2020 at 1:07 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Drich - August 3, 2020 at 9:41 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by brewer - July 31, 2020 at 4:59 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - July 31, 2020 at 11:29 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - August 2, 2020 at 6:54 am
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by no one - August 2, 2020 at 5:53 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - August 2, 2020 at 5:59 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - August 4, 2020 at 3:54 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - October 24, 2020 at 4:05 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Nay_Sayer - October 24, 2020 at 4:24 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Fake Messiah - October 24, 2020 at 9:50 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - November 14, 2020 at 8:13 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Prycejosh1987 - November 16, 2020 at 3:08 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Dundee - November 26, 2020 at 8:37 pm
RE: Did Jesus drink wine or grape juice? - by Rev. Rye - November 26, 2020 at 10:18 pm

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