[Serious] Christians what would change your mind?

[GrandizerII]

I have to agree with MA here. I don't think the best way to argue for vicarious redemption is by comparing it to the death penalty. The thing is it is believed in mainstream Christianity that all people are bound by the chains of sin and thus the only way to salvation is via vicarious redemption. Atheists generally don't agree with the whole idea of us being slaves to sin (or the ternal consequences of such) and thus no need for some Son of God to come along and save us.

That said, I don't see vicarious redemption as immoral in the context of the Trinity God. God offers his Son (not to be compared to a human father offering their human son btw) to redeem the world. Sounds like a noble thing to me.

How so? In the same manner as every tyrant and his sycophants regarding each of the tyrant’s caprices as the most noble of all things?

An omnipotent god would have been nobler to offer nothing, and instead remove the stupid and immoral insistAnce of redemption of others for what is ultimately his own oversight.

Yeah, but that's a slightly different debate. Yours is a more general critique of the system set in place by the Christian God. I'm not considering that in my previous post.