The absurd need for logical proofs for God

[Simon Moon]

At this point (probably should have asked this earlier in the thread), I think what we need from you, is how you go about detecting when something is designed, and when it isn't.

Please list the method(s) and steps you use to determine a designed thing from a non designed thing.

There is none, there is no distinction. This was precisely my point. Literally nothing in this earth belongs to us, nothing, everything is either created ex nihilo by an agent/cause or was always there. And because these things display appearances of complexity, design, etc, this makes it more probable than not that the agent in question is intelligent, and meant for the end result to happen.

Appearance of design is the very definition of design. What we usually consider to be cleverly designed machines is a combination of matter that doesn't belong to us in a way that is useful to a set of people, in other words, assigning design to something is actually a subjective issue; it's not difficult to see that there is no intrinsic property of design that we can assign to objects around us. It's really a matter of nomenclature.

So many problems here, not sure where to start...


First of all, complexity is NOT a hallmark of design. Competent engineers strive for simplicity not complexity.

Second, we recognize design by contrasting them to things that occur naturally, not by their complexity.

And just because something has the appearance of design, does not mean it is designed.

According to your 'method', the following, purely naturally occurring, weathered rock formations are all designed, but they are provabley not.