RE: The Trinity
January 23, 2021 at 4:11 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2021 at 4:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Would it help to reconsider that, just as I don't believe in the things you believe, I might not make the same valuations you make?
You appear to be arguing against the uncharitableness of some explanation and the character of the arguer based on that perception of charitability. So let's assume something less drastic. Maybe I don't talk good and stuff, right? Well, okay, fair enough. This is all on me.
Do I think that trinitarian belief doesn't make sense? Not in anything other than some novel sense of explicit commitments to other things and metrics than religious beliefs. These things simply arent like other things. I've been arguing that they do make sense as beliefs, even and especially when that belief is that some things about a god literally wont and can't make sense to man. Just flat out beyond our ken. They could have dissembled here, they could have rambled on in perpetuity...and some inevitably did - but, officially, they straight owned what they believed.
Regardless of whether that belief is true or false in one of those explicit commitments referenced above - it was a show of good character and rational integrity.
That is no longer satisfying to a great many christians... and I understand that -very- well. I think that, charitably, we can say that early christianity wasn't ever really satisfied with it either - it just was (for some is) an accurate description of what they believed. Are you one of those christians? There are people who look at that and they might think that it's wrong, or that it's hypocritical or crazy or a conspiracy of control..or whatever. I'm not one of them. I'm saying that this is what happened, and this is what we see happening, and it looks to me like we have examples of that - from yourself and from tack. Tack is finding that, at least in his community, the creedal expression of trinitarian belief is being improved and fleshed out. That implies that there was some deficit prior. That people said "I believe in x"..sang the songs.... - but then failed to explain or explained not x or anti x when surveyed. As I understand it, he's seen that improve just in his time there. What do you see in your community, and what of any of your earlier comments might you refer to in order to explain whatever it is you're seeing in your community - regardless of what anyone else in any other community or some global community has been seeing, ofc.
Do you think that there's an old guard and a new guard, and that the new guards ideas are progress slowly incoming on the basis of replacement?
You appear to be arguing against the uncharitableness of some explanation and the character of the arguer based on that perception of charitability. So let's assume something less drastic. Maybe I don't talk good and stuff, right? Well, okay, fair enough. This is all on me.
Do I think that trinitarian belief doesn't make sense? Not in anything other than some novel sense of explicit commitments to other things and metrics than religious beliefs. These things simply arent like other things. I've been arguing that they do make sense as beliefs, even and especially when that belief is that some things about a god literally wont and can't make sense to man. Just flat out beyond our ken. They could have dissembled here, they could have rambled on in perpetuity...and some inevitably did - but, officially, they straight owned what they believed.
Regardless of whether that belief is true or false in one of those explicit commitments referenced above - it was a show of good character and rational integrity.
That is no longer satisfying to a great many christians... and I understand that -very- well. I think that, charitably, we can say that early christianity wasn't ever really satisfied with it either - it just was (for some is) an accurate description of what they believed. Are you one of those christians? There are people who look at that and they might think that it's wrong, or that it's hypocritical or crazy or a conspiracy of control..or whatever. I'm not one of them. I'm saying that this is what happened, and this is what we see happening, and it looks to me like we have examples of that - from yourself and from tack. Tack is finding that, at least in his community, the creedal expression of trinitarian belief is being improved and fleshed out. That implies that there was some deficit prior. That people said "I believe in x"..sang the songs.... - but then failed to explain or explained not x or anti x when surveyed. As I understand it, he's seen that improve just in his time there. What do you see in your community, and what of any of your earlier comments might you refer to in order to explain whatever it is you're seeing in your community - regardless of what anyone else in any other community or some global community has been seeing, ofc.
Do you think that there's an old guard and a new guard, and that the new guards ideas are progress slowly incoming on the basis of replacement?
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