RE: How to beat a presupp at their own game
March 19, 2021 at 2:53 pm
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2021 at 2:56 pm by R00tKiT.)
(March 18, 2021 at 5:46 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Actually, that is precisely what the judge is doing. If he decides not to punish, or even to punish at a lesser degree that the law calls for, he is abrogating justice for mercy.
What law? Isn't God the ultimate moral authority? Isn't anything god does a law itself ?
And again, you're just asserting that justice gets abrogated by mercy, it's not always true and depends on the situation. Being "merciful" can mean for example shortening the duration of some punishment without canceling it completely, etc. There are levels of mercy, after all.
Overall, I frankly don't think anyone can make a sound case against an all-knowing god being unjust to its creatures based on our very limited understanding of morality and ethics. I have the impression that it's even arrogant to address these issues this way. And even if we accept your assertion, that justice logically contradicts mercy, it's still possible to say that a creature to whom god was "merciful" - or merely just in more subtle ways - did good deeds to compensate for the amount of sin it committed, because a maximally great being won't neglect these good deeds no matter how small.
(March 18, 2021 at 5:46 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: One the whole, I prefer mercy, but it’s simply thickheaded to suppose that both can be dispensed in the same instance.
Boru
Why is it thickheaded ? If judge x arbitrarily pardons a murderer, he is clearly unjust. If he decides not to punish someone for some misdemeanor, that doesn't make him unjust. The difference between these two instances is not hard to understand.
(March 18, 2021 at 9:47 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There's no shortage of such verses in your magic book.
Okay name one.
(March 19, 2021 at 10:56 am)Angrboda Wrote: I didn't specify why I thought your god was unjust, so you're just trying to attribute reasons to me that haven't been said. The fact is that is not the reason I think your god is an unjust god, and while I disagree that a god should be judged upon how a religion describes their god, as false and contradictory attributes are not uncommonly applied to people's god, I think your god is unjust by the religion's own criteria. Tell me, according to whom is your god just? And before you answer, let me point out that Hitler probably thought himself moral and just according to his own standards. So, according to whom is your god just? What standard apart from Allah does your god align with?
Your question doesn't make much sense. God is the ultimate moral authority in any religion or theology, the mere existence of some superior standard to god contradicts his godness. You can say you don't accept arguments for God's existence. But if you concede the latter, then you also concede his status as the source of morality.