How to beat a presupp at their own game

[Angrboda]

I didn't specify why I thought your god was unjust, so you're just trying to attribute reasons to me that haven't been said.  The fact is that is not the reason I think your god is an unjust god, and while I disagree that a god should be judged upon how a religion describes their god, as false and contradictory attributes are not uncommonly applied to people's god, I think your god is unjust by the religion's own criteria.  Tell me, according to whom is your god just?  And before you answer, let me point out that Hitler probably thought himself moral and just according to his own standards.  So, according to whom is your god just?  What standard apart from Allah does your god align with?

Your question doesn't make much sense. God is the ultimate moral authority in any religion or theology, the mere existence of some superior standard to god contradicts his godness. You can say you don't accept arguments for God's existence. But if you concede the latter, then you also concede his status as the source of morality.

You apparently didn't heed my warning. If God is just and moral because he meets his own standard, then Hitler by the same logic was just and moral as he met his own standard. As a general matter, people's ideas about what is right and wrong align with the things that they want to do or not do, and there's no reason to think that Allah is any different. As you correctly note, he's accountable to no one. And that's the problem.

Let me run a hypothetical past you. Let's suppose that in an alternate reality which only exists in our minds, all that is true about our reality is true about that reality, including Allah. There's just one difference. In that reality, raping babies is moral and just. Now I'm sure you're tempted to say that that would be different, that the Allah in that reality isn't truly Allah, but look at the surrounding facts. In that reality, just as in this one, those who believe in him do not doubt the morality or justness of any of his proclamations. They too would argue that anything their god proclaims, even baby raping, must be moral because all morality and laws descend from him. In short, the Muslims in bizarro world would say all the same things that you say about Allah and they would likewise be true. As far as a believer is concerned, both you as a Muslim in this world would be justified by Allah in thinking that baby raping is wrong, while they, using all the same justifications as you do, conclude that baby raping is fine and dandy. If the justification you use can lead you to diametrically opposed conclusions, regardless of what the god in question advocates, then how can you be sure that the Allah in this world isn't giving a pass to something as awful as baby raping? You can't. And the reason you can't is because regardless of what your god pronounces, it is judged moral. This is because the standard you have adopted, and Allah's choice of moral truths, is wholly arbitrary. If Allah is the standard of morality, he can do no wrong, not because what he does isn't problematic, but because you as a Muslim have given him carte blanche to do whatever he pleases. If Allah's morals are arbitrary as I suggest, then there is nothing moral about them because if anything, morality isn't arbitrary.

Chew on this for a minute. Let's presume that something that you've accepted as moral actually isn't moral, that like baby raping, it's horribly wrong. Given that you rubber stamp anything Allah says, how would you ever discover that this is the case, that Allah has okay'ed something that is immoral? If you can't determine that your god is immoral, you can't determine that he is moral either. This is a variant of the principle of falsification. If you can't detect when you're wrong, saying that you're right is hollow and without meaning or substance. Note also the similarities to Divine Command Theory. If what's good is whatever Allah says is good, there are no checks on what Allah proclaims to be good. And the Euthyphro Dilemma is just a stone's throw away.