RE: How to beat a presupp at their own game
March 26, 2021 at 12:47 pm
(This post was last modified: March 26, 2021 at 12:49 pm by Superjock.)
(March 20, 2021 at 8:52 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote:(March 17, 2021 at 4:10 am)Superjock Wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm an atheist, although I've really just suppressed my belief in God for 30 years... which is what some theists will tell me. I joined Discord a week ago and I listened to the chats in one of the theist servers
The chat server is filled with presupps and the number one objection for atheism that I hear is what grounds our atheism? What grounds do we have for facts and knowledge? How can we know anything in a godless world?
From their view, God is the foundation of knowledge. It's self-justifying - how do they know? God revealed it through special and divine revelation and therefore they cannot be wrong. So to deny this, means that atheists are appealing to a non-personal universe (??) (I'm probably not stating this argument 100%, I"m tired and haven't slept)
If you say the universe is my starting point as an atheist, they'll say what grounds the universe?
One of the primary presupps there is Darth Darkins. Anyone know how to dismantle this type of argument?
Hopefully you're still around, man. Have you tried debating this guy yet? I'm interested in hearing how it went. I'll help if I can.
I'm astounded by the arrogance of someone who thinks they've "solved epistemology." I have a ton of things you can try.
The first thing that comes to mind: Can you logically demonstrate that "God-based" knowledge is somehow better than regular knowledge?
I mean, this presupp stuff is CLEARLY question begging. Has nobody brought this up? (I'm assuming they have.) What is the typical response to this?
Hi there, no I haven't debated Darth who is the one who has put this argument forth to atheists. I'm not knowledgeable enough to take him on yet. :
His reasoning is that in a godless world, there is nothing absolute and ultimate to ground all possibility and impossibility. It's a universe based on chance, so the laws of physics may change tomorrow. Also, his argument is that all facts and knowledge in a godless world are arbitrary, whereas in his worldview knowledge can only be attained through the Christian God because he is omniscient and all-powerful and institutes that which is fundamental and ultimate etc, etc.To fellow atheists, somewhat different question - but a question I often see from theists. The question goes : where do atheists get their basis to justify any claim they make?
