RE: Why God doesn't stop satan?
June 10, 2021 at 10:26 am
(This post was last modified: June 10, 2021 at 10:49 am by The Grand Nudger.)
That's a long winded way to acknowledge that the participants of a replay from any pov have no option to do another thing, don't you think? The mere possibility of foreknowledge, no matter who has it, and in fact even if no one and no thing has it, precludes free will. You're fixated on the idea of force, that the knower must somehow force the actor (and this is bad, I guess, but I can't imagine why it would be or even why it would matter if it were bad, it's not exactly the worst thing you think god will do to lowly human worms...)- but that's not the case nor is it why foreknowledge precludes free will - therefore arguing that a father doesn't force his daughter or a god doesn't force humans is completely irrelevant. He simply needs to know, for a fact, that his daughter will do x. The possessor of foreknowledge doesn't have to instantiate this state of affairs himself or itself, it merely needs to be a competent observer of the true fact that some actor absolutely will do a specific thing and no other at some future point. It's just seeing what is true.
You can talk about choices all you like, but in a world where foreknowledge is possible, you never had any other option no matter what you chose. That would be the nature of your choices, and..as you seem to realize in the case of a god, no free will is necessary to make a decision. Nor, for that matter, in a daughter choosing this or that flavor of ice cream.
I have a question. As an earnest believer in a genuine theology, if there were some discrepancy between human notions and ideas like free will, and the asserted nature or abilities of god, what takes precedence? Is god not what you think it is, can;t do what you think it can do.....or are you not what you think you are, can't do what you think you can do?
Just for context, foreknowledge by any name, and prophecies specifically, are some of my favorite parts of any set of superstitions. I think we're actually getting something right when we assert them. That foreknowledge is possible. OFC a god could be a fortune teller, we think that people can be, too...and we might be right - even though that state of affairs is thorny for other ideas that are important to us. I don't possess foreknowledge of my daughters choices - not even what flavor of ice cream she'd pick at a given moment..but I'd like to, and I think there's probably some way or some ability that would or could allow me to figure it out- even if that meant that my darling girl is a bioautomatan.
Christians have a fun way of dealing with this concern. The notion that we're all going to do bad, and it isn't the doing of bad that damns us, but the disposition of our soul towards that bad we will do, have no choice but do. Christian free will is a religious term of art, as is...or so I gather from your comments, islamic free will.
You can talk about choices all you like, but in a world where foreknowledge is possible, you never had any other option no matter what you chose. That would be the nature of your choices, and..as you seem to realize in the case of a god, no free will is necessary to make a decision. Nor, for that matter, in a daughter choosing this or that flavor of ice cream.
I have a question. As an earnest believer in a genuine theology, if there were some discrepancy between human notions and ideas like free will, and the asserted nature or abilities of god, what takes precedence? Is god not what you think it is, can;t do what you think it can do.....or are you not what you think you are, can't do what you think you can do?
Just for context, foreknowledge by any name, and prophecies specifically, are some of my favorite parts of any set of superstitions. I think we're actually getting something right when we assert them. That foreknowledge is possible. OFC a god could be a fortune teller, we think that people can be, too...and we might be right - even though that state of affairs is thorny for other ideas that are important to us. I don't possess foreknowledge of my daughters choices - not even what flavor of ice cream she'd pick at a given moment..but I'd like to, and I think there's probably some way or some ability that would or could allow me to figure it out- even if that meant that my darling girl is a bioautomatan.
Christians have a fun way of dealing with this concern. The notion that we're all going to do bad, and it isn't the doing of bad that damns us, but the disposition of our soul towards that bad we will do, have no choice but do. Christian free will is a religious term of art, as is...or so I gather from your comments, islamic free will.
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