RE: Why God doesn't stop satan?
June 11, 2021 at 1:29 pm
(This post was last modified: June 11, 2021 at 1:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 11, 2021 at 10:42 am)Klorophyll Wrote:Well, I think that way about gods, to an extent, sure. If, for example, your barbaric god were real, I'd have no use for it, and still wouldn't be a muslim.(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Exactly so, and, to the existence of other minds, your belief in a great fairy is no more relevant or useful to that end.
It's good to know that you would only believe in things because they are useful, not because they are true.
Quote:Hard solipsism isn't a problem for a hard solipsist who believes that there is, in fact, only one mind in all of creation - gods. That's not a solution to the problem of hard solipsism, it's just being a hard solipsist. I don;t find myself wondering if the wachowskis wrote a documentary anymore than I think the flintstones was historical footage.(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:
Theism is not a solution to the problem of hard solipsism that you see as a problem.
How is hard solipsism a problem for someone who believes that a god created external reality, with no intent to deceive its creatures? It is you who needs to deal with the possiblity of being stuck in a matrix, not me.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a person who gets his facts from a collection of myths derives his notions about life from movies and cartoons.
Quote:Oh, I'm sorry, is everything not the mind or will of god? What exists apart from it? I'm not misrepresenting your position, you believe in a great many mutually exclusive things and this makes you uncomfortable. Good. Islam hasn;t turned your brain to complete mush yet, though your affliction does seem to have had some persistent effects already.(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I insist, for example, that I only need observe other human existence to believe in other minds. You assert, to the contrary, that those humans have no proper mind and indeed no free will. That all is the mind of god, all is the will of god - not the will of any or even all men.
Have fun misrepresenting my position. You didn't answer the bit regarding the possibility of reconciling foreknowledge with free will. I'll repeat that again : free will only makes sense when time is taken into account, past the time when an individual can choose between at least two alternatives, "free will" ceases to have meaning. An all-powerful God is capable of permitting choice to an individual at given moments in time. Thanks to his foreknowledge, he knows all the outcomes of all the choices made, and thus can create a reality which corresponds exactly to these outcomes.
I wasn't asking you for why you believe in other minds.. we all believe in them for the same reason. But about whether you have a complete justification of this belief that can be conveyed in formal terms. Chances are the same justification would be enough or more than enough to accept that a designer exists.
Quote:You keep talking about my worldview like I've ever shared it with you. The Atheist View as though you were one and knew it.....but I only know what you think about this because you won't stop babbling about it, and you don't know very much about anyone else's position on anything. You struggle with your own.(June 11, 2021 at 12:49 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You do not believe in free will, and yet you insist upon it's reality.
Did I mention before that free will actually requires God? It is under your worldview that free will is impossible, not mine. If there is no god, there is nothing provable other than matter and chemical reactions in our brain, which all happen independently of our will. You are the product of completely mechanical processes and of the input you get from your senses, there is simply no room for choice or freedom. Let's see how you get out of that.
I searched some entries of atheist activists on Youtube, I admit I was shocked that the founders of Rationality Rules, Cosmic Skeptic, The atheist experience, etc all seem to share the same conclusion, there can't be free will under your godless worldview. Under mine ,there are possibilites of reconciliation, such as the one I tried to present above.
There is no fact about any human ability, in my opinion, that relies on a god in any way. With or without a god, we either do or don't have the thing called free will. It's a question about people, not gods. You may as well claim that people couldn't have ears in a godless worldview..and as silly as that sounds...I bet it's something that you also believe. We wouldn't be here to have ears if there were no god, after all? Right?
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