RE: Why God doesn't stop satan?
June 20, 2021 at 3:30 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2021 at 3:52 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(June 19, 2021 at 9:01 pm)Klorophyll Wrote:You have no free will if you cannot do otherwise. You have a fate, a destiny. That's why they call the beliefs you've expressed fatalism.(June 17, 2021 at 8:37 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There is no time gate to a pre-knower.
But the object of foreknoweldge is bound by time, as I repeatedly explained to you. The free will of an individual intrinsically depends on time and circumstances, you don't take that into account in your refutation.
Quote:You believe that god knew everything that would happen before there was ever a first moment. God would know, before you selected x, afterwards, before you were born, before your mother was born, in fact, you've never once made a choice in your entire life. You've merely stumbled through a set of predetermined selections engineered by the author of creation. All of it leading certainly and inevitably to whatever end your garbage god has in store for you..which, as I hear it told, is pretty gruesome.(June 17, 2021 at 8:37 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The issue between free will and preknowledge, for the umpteenth time. Is that -if it can be known...even if it isn't known, even if no one knows it, even if no one -makes- it happen, that you will select x..... You cannot do otherwise.
You say, "you cannot do otherwise". This assertion is true in what moment exactly ? before I select x, or afterwards ?
Foreknowledge precludes free will. The author of creation precludes free will by foreknowledge, and prevents it's mere possibility by force of it's asserted existence. That's why so many of the people who you cribbed your religion from don't believe in it. I think you understand that there's an issue here, yourself, given that you invoked a downright hilarious ad hoc miracle to explain how god did and was all of the things you knew would violate the concept, but, by magic, it didn't have that effect. Somehow, we still had the thing you knew we could have.
abracadabra!
I wonder, could we peel back another layer of the onion here? I could explain why the beliefs you've asserted caused you to immediately argue against them yourself all day..but that probably wont produce any real insight for you. What might, is wondering why you need both things to be true, and why you feel that either of them being false would invalidate anything else, or indeed much or all of everything else.
It must be a powerful need. If we had no free will, would that mean there was no god, for example? No good and bad? Would we, upon discovering that we in fact have no free will, all dissappear into a puff of mist, finite, end of story? You seemed to think that people would have to explain something outside of your religious beliefs...but you must already know that this is a trivial exercise? Categorically trivial, in fact, for people who don't share your religious beliefs. It's not a gotcha question, it just makes you look like an idiot..or worse, a deviant.
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