RE: Isn’t pantheism the same thing as atheism?
November 23, 2021 at 1:29 pm
(This post was last modified: November 23, 2021 at 2:05 pm by Alan V.)
(November 23, 2021 at 11:13 am)Ferrocyanide Wrote:(November 22, 2021 at 2:37 pm)Alan V Wrote: First of all, I see "determined or random" as a false dichotomy.
So, you are suggesting that there is a 3 rd state. Explain to me how the 3 rd state operates.
People do things because of reasons. Reasons are not the same thing as material causes in a reductionistic sense. The wiring of the human brain works the same no matter what is decided.
(November 23, 2021 at 11:13 am)Ferrocyanide Wrote:Quote:Humans also "fill in the blanks" to interpret situations without enough information (like you are doing), and choose between frames of reference so they have a better idea which algorithms to apply to which situations. Also, humans create their own programs.
This is not a 3 rd state. We use our logic and fill in blanks where it is appropriate. Humans are simply a far more sophisticated program than a Win XP.
The human brain takes input from reality, it learns from reality. We also learn from our peers.
The human brain’s circuits are plastic.
A program like Win XP is static but neural based algorithms are designed to learn.
Yes, when a baby is born, its brain is initialized to a certain state. The brain is not a total blank like your hard drive or RAM that you buy from the store.
You are depending on an outdated, behavioristic or reflexive model of the human brain. A living brain is much more than a computer, so the analogies only go so far.
The emergent position (as contrasted with reductionism) is that there exists both bottom-up and top-down causation. Brains create their own information which is often as causal as any more direct physical cause of behaviors. This means that potential causes are sometimes selected and not merely added together as in a mathematical equation.
(November 23, 2021 at 11:13 am)Ferrocyanide Wrote: For the brain, it needs to work in a certain way, it needs to be logically and this means having rules, having circuits, which means it is deterministic.
Free will decisions are virtual, yet still causal. They are in addition to what is merely determined on a less complex level. That is what makes them emergent.
I am saying all this to contrast the perspectives of emergent materialism with reductionistic (deterministic) materialism. Science has not decided which is correct yet. Scientists and philosophers are still arguing over the issues, and many have strong opinions one way or the other. I have read books expressing both perspectives.
For more of an overview, see for instance Reduction and Emergence in Science and Philosophy.