(August 23, 2022 at 10:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: -and yet...jewish people remain in the world, and don't appear to agree that this is what their establishment myths or legends are referring to.Thank you for your reply.
The Self-Glorification Hymn from the Dead Sea Scrolls asserts, from the first-person narrative, a messianic human who has been exalted into heaven with a status above the angels. This figure rhetorically asks "Who bears all griefs as I do? And who suffers evil like me? Who has been despised on my account?" to imply that he has been despised unlike anyone before, modelling himself on the suffering servant from Isaiah's servant songs.
"The Messiah --what is his name?...The Rabbis say, The Leper Scholar, as it is said, `surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God and afflicted...'"–Babylonian Talmud: (Sanhedrin 98b)
Quote:It was unsuccessful until the romanizers hit it. ..............? The first proto-christians in rome...as we're both aware I'm sure, were apprehended as ignorant yokels who believed in shit like zombie god-man and cannibalism....and any remaining attempt to aggressively proselytize on behalf of judaism proper (ala the pharisees jewish universalism)would just be rebellion, because that's pretty much how the roman public saw jewish people and judaism. Having recently been in open rebellion, and all.I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, although I think I get enough to point out that the Romans were unable to distinguish between Judaism and Xianity for a long time.
Quote:The arc of the narratives creation...<snip>...political dispute.I'm still not seeing any actual evidence that the first Xians tacked Judaism onto their Xian beliefs, as you seem to be suggesting.
What were their Xian beliefs, without Judaism anyway?
I suspect that you, (in common with most Xians!), are heavily underplaying the role of Judaism in the NT. The centrality of the Kingdom of God, the role of Israel in sorting out humanity's problems, the Holy Spirit as a takeaway Temple, these and other vital Jewish concepts are are core elements to The Story as told by the first Xians.
In miscalling what happened “appropriation”, you don't provide evidence for an alternative version of History. Please explain what you think happened, and then please give me historical evidence for why we should believe it.
Xianity was a split from Judaism, which happened because those closest to Jesus had an immensely powerful set of experiences that convinced them that the Jewish Messiah had inaugurated the Kingdom of God.. That is far and away the best explanation of the beliefs of the Early Xians.