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[Serious] The Story
#70
RE: The Story
OK, a rather overlong answer to the persecution question, now I can focus on such a tangent.

Firstly, what is persecution? There is high level persecution in which an emperor declares that Xians are bad and there are prizes for the people who kill the most Xians. There is no evidence of that before Nero. There is medium level persecution such as a minor riot. The sort of thing that uses pitchforks and torches. Then there is low level, such as a couple of drunks doing dental work on a Xian with their boots. There is overwhelming evidence for those two.

In C1 Mediterranean society, unlike C21 Western, religion was not a private matter in it's own box. It was intimately bundled with your culture, race, community and nation. To change religion was to insult all of those.

To a Jew, you denied the uniqueness of the Jews, declared Torah redundant and denied the need to make Israel independent. To a Roman, declaring Jesus to be Christ (=King) was to declare that Caesar wasn't, which was sedition and treason. To an urban Greek, the town god protected the local town from harm, so when someone comes along and says to stop worshipping the god (and stop buying his merch) it badly upsets people.

So Xians were angering pretty much every society in which they operated, and a convert to Xianity got the reaction it would get today in, say North Korea, Iran or  Kyrgyzstan.

Nothing high level or organised, but a constant stream of vilification and violence.

What is the evidence for this low/medium persecution in the earliest church?
Stephen barely gets his head around Jesus when someone bashes it in. Saul organises persecution (and he knew what would happen to him when he converted). Herod executes James. A riot in Ephesus. Etc and a full long list in Acts is here: Acts bit (Book of Acts). Paul writes to Thessalonica to comfort them in their persecution (1 Thess 2). Paul writes to Phillippi to comfort them in their persecution (Phil 1). Paul writes to Rome to comfort them in their persecution (Rom 5 and 8). Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team (Joel). Jesus tells the disciples to expect suffering (Makes no sense if there weren't any; Luke 21, Matt 5 etc). Paul getting hurt (1 Cor 4 etc) Martyrs in Revelation (2,6,20)

And then there's 2 Corinthians.
Paul's legitimacy has been challenged by the Torah-bashers. The Corinthians have asked for a CV listing all his achievements so they can do a relaunch of his ministry as a fine, noble figure.

Paul's reply is a masterpiece of dark comedy.

He starts by talking about what a Xian hero looks like i.e. Jesus. He points out that Jesus got beaten up, spat on and killed. That the Corinthians have it the wrong way around- if you want to be a Xian hero, expect to suffer like Jesus. He then writes the following.

(If you genuinely, really, actually don't think Xians were persecuted, please please read this passage slowly enough to understand it.)

Funny man

In other words, he says, if you want a CV to glorify me, I'll pull down my pants and it's written in the terrible scars on my arse.

(US=ass. I paraphrase a bit. There's a corona muralis reference in v33)

There is more evidence, but we already have multiple sources in multiple forms (History, letters, music, biography, comedy...). Historically it's an earthquake creating slam dunk of certainty that the earliest Xians were persecuted.
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Messages In This Thread
The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 17, 2022 at 2:05 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 17, 2022 at 2:19 pm
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 21, 2022 at 11:42 am
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 21, 2022 at 7:19 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 21, 2022 at 11:51 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 22, 2022 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Story - by zebo-the-fat - August 21, 2022 at 12:07 pm
RE: The Story - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 21, 2022 at 12:46 pm
RE: The Story - by Anomalocaris - August 21, 2022 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Story - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 21, 2022 at 1:36 pm
RE: The Story - by Anomalocaris - August 21, 2022 at 1:17 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 21, 2022 at 1:24 pm
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 22, 2022 at 10:17 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 22, 2022 at 11:38 am
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 22, 2022 at 11:52 am
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 22, 2022 at 11:53 am
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 23, 2022 at 2:45 pm
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 25, 2022 at 9:15 am
RE: The Story - by Belacqua - August 25, 2022 at 9:22 am
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 25, 2022 at 9:24 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 9:36 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 25, 2022 at 10:02 am
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 10:11 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 23, 2022 at 3:35 pm
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 23, 2022 at 10:26 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 12:34 pm
RE: The Story - by HappySkeptic - August 24, 2022 at 12:38 pm
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 24, 2022 at 4:53 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 5:13 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 7:56 pm
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 9:46 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 10:46 am
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 12:44 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 1:18 pm
RE: The Story - by Angrboda - August 25, 2022 at 5:35 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 26, 2022 at 6:29 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 26, 2022 at 11:29 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 26, 2022 at 11:34 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 24, 2022 at 7:18 am
RE: The Story - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 22, 2022 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 22, 2022 at 1:59 pm
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 24, 2022 at 7:23 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 22, 2022 at 4:46 pm
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 23, 2022 at 10:01 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2022 at 10:21 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 24, 2022 at 1:31 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 10:47 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2022 at 11:08 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 11:47 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 23, 2022 at 1:12 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 1:58 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 23, 2022 at 2:19 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 23, 2022 at 4:49 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 23, 2022 at 11:16 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 5:09 am
RE: The Story - by Silver - August 23, 2022 at 11:29 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 12:05 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 24, 2022 at 1:33 pm
RE: The Story - by Belacqua - August 24, 2022 at 1:04 am
RE: The Story - by Belacqua - August 24, 2022 at 8:22 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 11:11 am
RE: The Story - by Neo-Scholastic - August 24, 2022 at 11:18 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 11:19 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 12:42 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 1:34 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 2:06 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 24, 2022 at 2:48 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 24, 2022 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2022 at 2:14 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 10:18 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 10:50 am
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 11:38 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 11:47 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 25, 2022 at 12:42 pm
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 26, 2022 at 3:24 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 2:05 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 2:24 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 2:39 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 4:22 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 25, 2022 at 3:08 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 3:12 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 25, 2022 at 3:40 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 4:52 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 5:23 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 5:49 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 6:01 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 5:57 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 6:43 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 25, 2022 at 6:51 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2022 at 6:58 pm
RE: The Story - by Mister Agenda - August 26, 2022 at 9:14 am
RE: The Story - by Anomalocaris - August 27, 2022 at 2:21 pm
RE: The Story - by Fake Messiah - November 20, 2022 at 8:51 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 9:19 am
RE: The Story - by Vicki Q - August 26, 2022 at 10:14 am
RE: The Story - by Pat Mustard - August 26, 2022 at 11:52 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 26, 2022 at 10:34 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 10:40 am
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2022 at 11:41 am
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 2:41 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 3:51 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 4:43 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 5:11 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2022 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2022 at 5:19 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 5:54 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 6:29 pm
RE: The Story - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2022 at 5:58 pm
RE: The Story - by John 6IX Breezy - August 27, 2022 at 6:47 pm
RE: The Story - by Jehanne - August 27, 2022 at 7:00 pm
RE: The Story - by Paleophyte - November 21, 2022 at 12:39 am

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